7 Month Doeling ?Pregnant? Help!

[CookingPam777]

I have been questioning weather or not Rose my 7 month old doeling is pregnant. My buck escaped his pen and I was right there when he broke out and they got separated quickly. Her udder feels like it's getting a bit of bag to it. I have felt her teats ever since she was little so when she was bigger she would be used to getting her teats touched. So I know when her udder has developed any. And it has. Teats are getting fatter. She is huge for her age. She would have been around 8-9 pounds at birth. And is 1 inch shorter than mama and has been this way forever now at least 2 months. Is it possible she is just chubby down there? She is firm everywhere and not really fat but big. Anyhow what I am concerned about if she is pregnant will she birth okay since she is pretty much full grown size? Should I do anything extra that I would not normally do? Also how can you be for certain if she is pregnant? If her bag is filling up wouldn't that mean kidding is going to happen somewhat soon? I have to help care for someone in NC for a week so I really REALLY want to know she will not kid while I am gone. Everyone in the family has little experience. So if she had any difficulty what so ever it would not be a good situation. I can't say I am Mrs. Experience but I have watched a goat birth and thought the goat may need help. I was ready for action but everything went smooth I was just panicking. If she if pregnant the buck was Nubian/Alpine she is Saanen. Just so you can get an idea on the size of the baby. As you can tell I am really worried about her. I had other ideas about what was gonna happen but my buck thought quite differently . She was suppose to get bred this month to a saanen buck.

Please

[Backfourty,MI.]

I had a pygmy doe give birth at 10 & 1/2 months old. Not because I wanted her to but becuase of my ignorance when we 1st got goats & I kept my buck & doe's all together. Well I learned very quickly. I didn't know about this forum at the time & didn't know much about goats at the time. Well thank god everything worked out, she gave birth with no help. Her kid I still have, I wethered him & he is my most favorite goat & if I have my way will live with us always. I think he'd rather be with humans than the goats! Hahahaha!
If you think your little doe is getting ready to give birth already wouldn't she have been too young to get pregnant? She would have been about 2 months old or so, does that sound right? I have only every had Pygmies & nigerians & so far my experience is that the young doe's come in heat the 1st time at around 5 months, but I keep my buck on the other side of the barn now.

[CookingPam777]

Your right! She was 3-4 months old at the time. I thought I for sure I separated them in time so never thought I have to remember when. So she would have a month or 2? Does the bag start filling up around 3 month?

[tmfinley]

You can also have a pregnancy test done at biotracking.
tiff

[susanne]

young does are developing udders without being pregnant.
7 month would be very young to kid. i would draw some blood and send in for testing.
cost only $7 and $4 for cae testing. will put your mind at rest

[hoggie]

Please can I add a question to this post?

I have two young girls that I think may have been accidentally bred at about 5 months. I knew that the boys are fertile early so was ready with the "accident prevention" for the nannies. Unfortunately I didn't think about the girls coming into season so young and I believe they were standing to be bred while I was away for a couple of days Over here we don't breed them for another year but I believe over there you breed in their first year?

My question is - what extra do they need now? I am worried that carrying kids whilst they are still growing will lead to calcium deficiencies etc. Obviously I am on damage limitation now, but can anyone point me in the right direction with these two girls please?

TIA

hoggie

[KSALguy]

why do you wait so long to breed? five months as long as they are i think 70-80% of their adult growth is the best time to get does bred that are going to be working for a liveing, that way their bodys dont get too much fat that wont work off, these are dairy animals right?

as long as you are feeding good quality hay and not too much grain to make the kids too large they should be fine, if bred at 5 months they will kid at 10ish months and thats perfecet as long as they were kept in good condition,

[Alice In TX/MO]

I believe that the prevailing thought is to feed enough alfalfa to provide adequate calcium.

[billygoatridge]

I had a jumping buck one year. One of the doelings got bred and had her kid at 9 months old. She did fine . Give her good alfalfa hay or pellets to keep her growing at the same time she's growing kids.

[mary,tx]

Originally Posted by hoggie

Please can I add a question to this post?

I have two young girls that I think may have been accidentally bred at about 5 months. I knew that the boys are fertile early so was ready with the "accident prevention" for the nannies. Unfortunately I didn't think about the girls coming into season so young and I believe they were standing to be bred while I was away for a couple of days Over here we don't breed them for another year but I believe over there you breed in their first year?

My question is - what extra do they need now? I am worried that carrying kids whilst they are still growing will lead to calcium deficiencies etc. Obviously I am on damage limitation now, but can anyone point me in the right direction with these two girls please?

TIA

hoggie

How long ago did they breed? There is a shot (lutalyse?) that you can give them to abort a month after breeding.

I did have two does that kidded at ten months after an "oops" breeding at five. I had seen the third doe get bred, and aborted her, but not these two. Both had twins, and both did fine. One of them was a little splay legged that first year, but has outgrown it.

[Shazza]

My 10 mth toggie doe had a huge doe kid last year....my buck must have escaped and then gone back to his paddock as I had no idea she had been bred....till I noticed an udder one day, then a rock hard udder the next....I helped her deliver her huge doe kid the next day. It of course stunted her growth, she is 3/4's the size of her twin sister.
She delivered twins this year all by herself.

[CookingPam777]

Sorry I was packing for the trip. Thank you all for such helpful responses I think she'll be okay and i'll put her on alfalfa. I am not gonna do the bio tracking thing though. I will just keep a close eye on her. We plan on getting a stethoscope and I am questioning more does being pregnant. Which if the others are would be fantastic because they have not been bred in 5 or more years. I do think getting a stethoscope I will be able to know and be able to prepare. Since I am extremely worried about how she is gonna do when she has it I would like to get it soon so if she is not pregnant I can ease my mind and if she convince myself she will be okay. Which physically I would say she is great I guess it thats number being to low that scares me I don't know. Do have a question though for ya some said if they are 70-80% of their full grown body weight they should be okay at four month old she was as big as she is now. Just always been a big girl so could have technically handled being pregnant then? I would give her a 95% on being her full grown size.

[hoggie]

Originally Posted by KSALguy

why do you wait so long to breed? five months as long as they are i think 70-80% of their adult growth is the best time to get does bred that are going to be working for a liveing, that way their bodys dont get too much fat that wont work off, these are dairy animals right?

as long as you are feeding good quality hay and not too much grain to make the kids too large they should be fine, if bred at 5 months they will kid at 10ish months and thats perfecet as long as they were kept in good condition,

To be honest, I am not sure why we wait LOL. It is just the way things are done here - I was quite shocked when I first came on here and found that everyone was breeding in the first year - over here that is very frowned upon - if you are brave enough to admitting to it happening in the first place

OK - so if I cut back on the grain and just give them hay and alfalfa from her eon down they should be OK?

Would have to ask about the abortion thing - does it affect them for future pregnancies?

Thanks

hoggie

[CookingPam777]

hoggie that is really interesting I never knew things were done different in the UK. I figured it was done the same everywhere! Very neat!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Hoggie with you I would not be listening to a bunch of folks from another continent about how to raise your goats that few to none of us even have access to your breed. Your bloodline seems very fine boned, I also would give them as much time as you can to get that calcium and bone built up before breeding my young does.

Although I breed all my kids to kid on or the next month after their first birthday, I don't recommend new folks on forums getting their basic management down, to do this. Not unless you have a local mentor helping you along with what products to feed, what is fluff etc.

The calcium issue is huge, but so is your copper and iron and molasass. Scewed in any way and you have yearlings who bow their legs permanantly, it doesn't get better. Hypocalcemia, which if you aren't up on your game with your own injectable CMPK in the barn right now, you will loose does as your vet comes and treats them for 'ketosis'.

I know nobody wants to hear do as I say and not what I do...but in this instance just because someone breeding goats for awhile does something, that doesn't mean you should when new. And when there are no photos that go along with the advice, do we know the animals grow up to be well grown? Excellent milkers with extended lactations, so you don't have a doe who only has enough milk for triplets and none for you?

You have to set management with what you are comfortable with. You have to be able to control your bucks if you can't than build a fort knox pen for your young does who simply can't get bred this year.

Pam, all of the above is for you also. I would never keep a 7 month old bred when you aren't planning on it. What is your goal with your goats. She can still be bred this year later into the winter for late spring or summer kids if you need the milk, that extra amount of time will give you a bigger stronger young milker with stronger kids. Sure you can breed 70 pound does, but you can tell the management of the kids isn't up to snuff when they are barely making MINIMUM weight gains of 10 pounds a month, it is minimum. All my March born kids are in the 90's some in the low 100's, that is the difference in why I breed mine early, you don't want a doe kidding as a yearling at 100 pounds unless she is a mini. Vicki

[KSALguy]

Hoggie post pics of the doelings in comparison to the adult does, give as much information on them as you can, besides if its been over a month sence they were bred you cant abort them anyway,

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

besides if its been over a month sence they were bred you cant abort them anyway,
..........................

Why? I kind of doubt you can purchase lute and abort in the UK anyway so the point is likely moot, but lute is a naturally occuring hormone in the goats body. You can't even use it until she is passed implantation which is at least 10 days if not 11. If you use it at anytime in the pregnancy it opens the cervic and aborts the kids, close enough to due date and the kids are viable. I can't even count the number of does we aborted in late term due to the "ketosis" diagnosis of old when in fact it was hypocalcemia that didn't need the kids aborted to save the doe.

Hoggie has Golden Gurnsey's a minor breed by any stretch of the imagination in the USA. In fact I think all the ones in the USA are not even purebred because it's just semen? They would take a different kind of care than our goats here, especially with the hair they carry (more protein like our hair goats) and the fine boned, smaller goat they are. Doing the same=o that the other breeders in her area are doing is exactly the advice she needs, until she gets her sea legs with the breed and goes it alone. Vicki

[hoggie]

Thank you Vicki.

I know what you mean about looking for advice from another continent - it does seem a bit strange sometimes But on this one, I thought that maybe because over there you all seem to breed early, you might have the solution to my "accident"

I have to say that my two little does look tiny to me, but that may just be because their brother is an absolute ox of a goat.

Funny you should mention copper and iron - I am not totally convincecd that I have the copper situation completely under control yet - the boys all show signs of that fish tail, and the kids won't touch the supplements

I have to confess that in this instance it was't that the bucks weren't under control - I was just too stupid to think about the girls being able to breed so young

Sounds as though maybe I should speak to the vet about those injections. I have to say I don't feel totally comfortable with the thought of them kidding so young - I hadn't even totally made up my mind I was keeping them yet.

Thank again

hoggie

[hoggie]

Sorry - all posting at the same time there.

So I probably won't be able to get the injections needed to abort?

OK - I guess it is sit tight and do the best I can then.

Drop the grain and up the alfalfa? Hypocalcaemia? Will have to read up on that one. Any other practical thoughts for now.

The two young does that may have been caught are 1/2 British Toggenburg and 1/2 Golden Guernsey. But they are little like the Guernseys although with short coats. I don't know if all that is relevant at all but better to give all the info.

Thanks again

hoggie

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Lutelyse sometimes called estromate. I have a dear friend who I fight with all the time about her Anglo Nubians who I ship stuff to because they simply don't allow some of the common things we use here. Course some of the common things we use here we bootleg in also I would love to know if you are perscribed this or not. Vicki