Will I be okay w/o dogs?

whinnyninny · #1 10/15/08, 02:00 PM

DH has decided that we need to get rid of our dogs (Setter/Retriever cross and Lab/Doberman cross)... they have a taste for fresh chicken.

I also didn't like the way they prowled the fencelines of the goat pen when our first goat kidded a few months back!

We have a lot of coyotes out here, and I can't help but wonder if having dogs on our property keeps the coyotes away? We have a 4-strand electric fence but that unfortunately does not stop neighborhood dogs from coming onto our property, so I doubt it keeps out coyotes. Our goats are kept inside 4' tall horse fence (the 2"x4" squares). The pen is within our entirely fenced-off 1.5 acre yard, so there's 2 fences, really, between the goats and the "outside world".

I'm also wondering, by the way, if our horses are effective at keeping coyotes away... they hate some dogs and will chase them off the property!

Will my goats be okay (safe from coyotes) if we don't have dogs? I'm not sure if we want to get a LGD, I have no idea how to go about training them...

CookingPam777 · #2 10/15/08, 05:50 PM

We don't have a dog to protect our goats and they are doing great. We have very few coyotes though. The worse I have seen is a nip mark on my doelings teat which went away and she is fine. We have a horrible case of foxes which get chicks and kitties. My kitten I got for my birthday last year has gotten 4 deep wounds. A little bigger than a quarter and deep.My other cats have been fine though. So we do have some vicious things around and my goats have done great! In your situation I would say you would be safe with 2 fences 4 feet tall but don't want to promise anything. I would think the horses would help a great deal to.

chris30523 · #3 10/15/08, 06:16 PM

I have coyotes and dogs. Nothing gets into the goat pen i have 5 strand high tensile electric. One of my dogs decided to test the fence again the other day and hasn't come out from under the porch yet. I would say you should be okay. Can't guarantee anything though.The coyotes come in close even with my dogs in the yard.Might add one more strand of wire closer to the ground .

Goat Servant · #4 10/15/08, 06:40 PM

I wouldnt be without our LGD and hope to get another maybe next year. We have coyotes round these parts & a cougar was spotted just a few days ago. I cannot afford to not have protection.
The day the cougar was seen my dog scaled fence to be with his goats. He is currently in pen next to them as a buck is here and didnt want dog distracting him from doing his job!
There was little training involved...introduced him to fence perimeters, finally got him to sit & come on command. He does the rest!

HappyFarmer · #5 10/15/08, 07:14 PM

We had goats for several years with no protection for them-just a flimsy fence. Now we have the lgd's, and they let us know when something is out there. The've made us aware that we not only have a lot of foxes, but also a large charcoal animal (probably coyote) slinking around out there, not to mention neighbors dogs. We've had no losses to predators to date.

Yes they will be okay-until something is large enough, hungry enough, and courageous to go after them.
HF

WeaverRose · #6 10/15/08, 07:43 PM

Maybe a donkey? or llama? I've heard that they are good guardians if dogs aren't an option.
BTW, the only time we've had goats and sheep killed on our place was when we were in between dogs. Got dogs again ASAP and the killing stopped.

whinnyninny · #7 10/15/08, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris30523

I have coyotes and dogs. Nothing gets into the goat pen i have 5 strand high tensile electric. One of my dogs decided to test the fence again the other day and hasn't come out from under the porch yet. I would say you should be okay. Can't guarantee anything though.The coyotes come in close even with my dogs in the yard.Might add one more strand of wire closer to the ground .

Our dogs are terrified of our electric fence, but the neighbor's free-roaming mutt (who is a chow/shepherd mix with very thick hair) climbs right through it... maybe its hair insulates it well?

I have the 1.5" wide electric tape, spaced at 16" intervals (16" off the ground and 5' high). I think I ought to try putting a strand of electric wire or braid between the bottom tape and the ground, and the bottom and 2nd-to-bottom tapes.

Kazahleenah · #8 10/16/08, 05:19 AM

That tape won't even slow down a 'yote. Test it yourself... touch it.... aint that bad. Now, touch a straight strand wire... hurts, don't it?!?!

There's a diffrence tween that tape and a tensile 'lectric fence.... get an LGD... IF you have time to train one, or money to buy one already trained.

Kaza

chris30523 · #9 10/16/08, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whinnyninny

Our dogs are terrified of our electric fence, but the neighbor's free-roaming mutt (who is a chow/shepherd mix with very thick hair) climbs right through it... maybe its hair insulates it well?

I have the 1.5" wide electric tape, spaced at 16" intervals (16" off the ground and 5' high). I think I ought to try putting a strand of electric wire or braid between the bottom tape and the ground, and the bottom and 2nd-to-bottom tapes.

Slick wire gives a better shock.If you have the horses in this enclosure stick with something like your tape that breaks a bit easier incase someone gets their foot through it.I would try a wire closer to the ground. We had a LGD and she was the best but we had to put her down for severe hip dysplasia and with her heavy fur she was miserable in our southern heat. I spent more time grooming the dog than careing for the goats.We loved her but are not ready for another dog so we spent the money for the dog on high tensile. So far nothing has gotten in. We don't have cougars in the area (I don't think the fence would keep these out).The only problem I have had is with a huge barn owl and the goats all pile up together when he is in the area (he seems to keep the feral cat population under control though).The only things in the 5 years I have had goats that got hold of them were my own dogs another reason for a dog tight fence or getting rid of the dogs.

jill.costello · #10 10/16/08, 05:58 AM

An intermidiate step BEFORE you rid yourself of your dogs might be those Invisible fence collars.

We have Blue Heelers, and they are horrid chicken-killers, BUT, we were in an area of Texas where the coyote population probably outnumbered the human population! So we invested in Invisible fence for the dogs.....

IT WORKED!! You run a line of the wire along whatever boundary you want the dogs to stay inside, and flag it with the little gas-line flags so the dogs at least have a fighting chance to put on the brakes before they get shocked.

They all wear the collars when outside.

After 1 week of leash-walking them around and around the boundary, we gave them supervised "play" within their area.....very satisfying!

JJ: " look! There's a chicken!"
Nina: "Let's kill it!"
Slick: "Oh! yeah! and roll in it's feathers!"
Mack: " Race ya!"

(wait for it......)

YELP! YELP YELP! Awf awf afw awf! Mommymommymommymommy!

I had 4 dogs cowering on my lap on the back porch!!

They regard the chickens with FEAR and AWE, now. I had run the wire along the chicken yard fence, so whenever they even LOOKED at a chicken, they got shocked.

You might think this would defeat the purpose of having dogs, but it doesn't, because in a REAL emergency (a coyote on the property, a stranger in the pasture tresspassing), my male dog would break through the invisible boundary to "protect" me, finish the job, and then come back to the edge of the boundary for me to "escort" him back through. (he must think I have super powers because I can turn off the electric to let him back through, but then it's miraculously turned back on the next minute....

jill.costello · #11 10/16/08, 06:00 AM

Forgot to add, you can get different brands of the same product, and eBay has some very reasonably priced from people that bought the wrong size for their dogs, etc.

whinnyninny · #12 10/16/08, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazahleenah

get an LGD... IF you have time to train one, or money to buy one already trained.

Kaza

Yeah, it's the training thing I'm worrying about. There was an ad on Craigslist yesterday for a free LGD (Great Pyrenees, I think)... the guy purchased him to protect his goats, but the dog likes to chase the goats and kill the chickens (same problems I'm having with my adopted-as-adults dogs). Guess the dog wasn't trained for being a LGD!

whinnyninny · #13 10/17/08, 10:05 AM

You know, speaking of dogs... I got an anonymous phone call last night ("private caller" on the Caller ID, 2:30 in the morning) from someone threatening to kill my dogs if they didn't stop barking. Real nasty and angry about it. But my dogs weren't barking! I went outside and heard other peoples' dogs barking, and even some donkeys braying, but mine were quiet!