Does this doe have good confirmation?

[knoxgal]

Below is a registered Nubian doe, 4 years old, 2nd freshening and being breed now. I am about to buy her for $450.00 in milk and breed, just wanted to make sure these utters were good ones. She gives about a gallon a day.

Thanks

[Mrs. Jo]

450.00!!!!!!!

Where are you located? And who would price an animal like that at 450?

She is the 150 -250 range and no more. Her udder is not spectacular, her back is not long and her rump is too steep, her neck is course, looks like she has bottle jaw, and I don't think her ears look very nice.

But that's just me. I would not pay that price for that doe.

Do you know what her bloodlines are?

If you want to see examples of really nice nubians go to blissberry.com and http://www.sixmgalaxy.blogspot.com/ and look at theirs. Then compare.

[cathleenc]

do you know when she was last milked out compared to when the picture was taken? Did they explain why 4 years old and only 2 freshenings?

[knoxgal]

I am in tennessee. She is three and 1/2

[copperpennykids]

I agree with Jo!

Steep rump, poor rear udder attachment, weak in the chine and poor breed characteristics - And not feminine in the head either - kind of lunky looking.

Have you tried using the ADGA directory for Tennessee to contact breeders near you? Just call them and ask if they have a nice doe in milk. Seems like you should be able to do better - but does in milk are getting scarce. CAE/CL status?

[Alice In TX/MO]

I have all of ONE experience with a Nubian doe and posting a photo of her udder.

I thought my doe's udder was good, too, but like yours, it wasn't. She doesn't have good attachments. Her udder hangs loose like a basketball with very little holding it up.

If you look at a photo of a good udder, it sits much higher and has flesh and ligaments that hold it up tight.

Scroll down on this link to see what I mean. I wish I owned this goat!
http://www.groundrushfarm.com/page8.html

[sungirl]

Steep rump, poor rear udder attachment, weak in the chine and poor breed characteristics - And not feminine in the head either - kind of lunky looking

100% Correct. She is not worth $450 for her confirmation. Udder isn't the worst I have seen, but still needs work. What made you want this doe? If you look at websites that breed nubians, look at their heads & roman noses. You will see what your doe is lacking then.

Patty.

[southerngurl]

She seems awfully small as well.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

A $500 milker is milkstand ready, CAE negative, CL tested but also coming from a herd where no CL has been seen. Milkstand ready is that you can go get the goat out of her pasture or barn, put her up on the milkstand, and milk her, without her jumping around etc...with a clean udder free of lumps and bumps.

If you want conformation you would be paying more than that down here.

$500 for a good family milker who is milking 8 pounds is a pretty normal price, look how much money they make when most are selling milk from $8 to $15 per gallon!

Yes her head is horrid, her ears non exsistant in fact pretty close to being not even registerable but recorded, I wouldn't regsiter a doe with those ears. Her whole rear end from her rump to her rear legs are awful, and the biggy for me is this that she is a 4 year old and a 2nd freshener...does she milk out to nothing? Because most does who are not...3 year old 3rd fresheners etc...and are Nubian have fat in their shoulders, and fat in their udders, beef that makes them look like they are excellent milkers, but in fact don't milk all the way out.

If she fills your needs for milk than buy her if there are others to choose from that are not so spongy on their pasterns I would choose one of them. Vicki

[billooo2]

I agree with most of the other comments............I have Alpines. I just took a milker to the sale barn last week that looked better than that one. (I did not want someone thinking that doe was an example of what a "typical goat" from my herd is like.)

Prices may be different for different breeds and in different parts of the country....or I just may be "weird".....I think that the only time I have paid that much for a doe, they have either won at least one leg towards a being a grand champion, or placed in the top 20 at the National Show, or won "Best Udder."

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

We set our market. When folks expect to get milkers at auction barn prices who are good milkers, than what do you do to your own market?

If you want a doe not to have your paperwork than AOP her if it's important for the gal to be registred, or no paperwork and ruin her tattoos.

But giving away stock to folks who then milk them, replacing grocery store costs they have gotten your goat for free essentially in less than 2 or 3 months. Those who sell them bred, the sale of one doeling and once again they have your goat for free. That isn't good buisness. Vicki

[susanne]

vicki i like your comments.
even though, this is not a show winning, nice specimen of a nubian doe as some of you judged correctly, she is worth the money if, BIG IF HERE, they can provide you with test results that states she is free of cae and cl. a gallon a day is a very nice nubian milker. i have seen some with much less milk than that.
on the plus side, she has straight legs, udder looks even too.

get her on the milk stand stand and milk her out your self, see if the amount is correct because after you have her home, she will give much less. this will prevent you from having doubts later and being disappointed. also feel the udder as it should feel free of any lumps.

all the others that think a milker is not worth the money, how much does it cost you to raise a doe kid to when you can milk her????

[mygoat]

I wouldn't ever pay that much for a doe that looks like that, regardless of her milking ability. I KNOW you can find MUCH better for the same price.

[betsy h.]

In the Knoxville, TN area, this doe is worth maybe $100. A $450 doe in the Knoixville area is pretty much top show quality. In fact, $450 is pretty much show quality anywhere in the south east!

This doe has unacceptable breed character for a Nubian.

There is a Nubian breeder in Dandridge, off of Exit 417, I-40, who has some VERY well bred purebred nubian does (Willow Run, Foxwood, Kismet, Sunrise Valley, etc.) for sale for LOTS less than this- LA scores, CAE tested, not been off her place for several years, etc. There are others in the area who also have acceptable does for sale right now.

Several of us here in the area have offered to help you and get you connected with the Smoky Mtn. Dairy Goat Assn., but have received no replies- they meet on the 2nd Sat. of every month at a member's home or church, and there's lots of help there with folks who run CAE neg. herds and have goats much better, and less costly, than the one you've shown here.

If you would contact us, we can get you connected ASAP. BTW> the next goat Seminar at UT in Knoxville is Feb. 21st 2009- these seminars are wonderful!

[betsy h.]

Also, as I said, you are welcome to come out to my place to look at what good conformation looks like on a dairy doe. I live near Gatlinburg, an easy drive. NO- *I am not trying to sell you anything* (I do not have anything for sale!), but I do have LA scores on my Saanen does and several E and V mammaries, so you will be able to see what udder 'attachment' looks like, with good teat size, as well as structure, bone and dairy character.

[ozark_jewels]

There is nothing *wrong* with that doe for a family milker as long as she is healthy. Does she have good conformation?? Emphatically NO. Her udder looks very milkable and is not bad at all........for a family milker. Her body has worse faults but still nothing that is unacceptable in the average homestead milker.
If you want her for anything else(show, breeding stock, etc.), I wouldn't even consider her. And for $450 you could get a LOT better doe in this area at least.
I'm not surprised that they are selling that doe, I have seen and indeed milked much worse does who were great assets as home milkers.
I am surprised that they are asking that much for her.
Again, there is nothing wrong with her udder for a family milker.....its just not show quality. She should always be bred to a good udder buck for improvement of her kids udders.

[topside1]

Knoxgal, as you now know that goat is worth $150-$200 providing it's stand ready (meaning without behavioral problems). I didn't read everyones comments but visually I don't like the looks of the entire goat, at least not with the $450 price tag. I'd offer $150 and see what happens. If you are just looking for grade dairy goats for lovin and milkin well my six does are due to start kidding the first week in January. I may be able to part with a doe in milk with or without kids..I'm 3 miles off I-40 exit 300....TJ

[mygoat]

Even if you're just looking for a home milker, I don't know why you wouldn't want to pay 450.00 on a show quality doe (or better yet, a doe with a high LA score, as LA isn't necessarily show quality but rather designed to evaluate the conformation with lifetime production in mind.) Even if you don't show you can breed her up and produce more quality animals which will always be in demand and will command higher sale prices. If you look at lines, you can easily find a quality doe that milks well for your family.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Someone post a show winner who is for sale for $450. Not a kid with no udder, but a doe with an E udder that will win for the person right now...they don't exsist. They are the loosing does of the herd and IF they are rehomed into areas of the country with no competition in the show ring, yes they can be very competetive, but a show winner, a doe with a current E appraisal score...no.

This is why the dairy goat industry for some is what it is. I know price fixing is against the law, but dang! You sell milk for nothing, you sell goats for less than they cost to raise! How is that good economics for your farm? I would rather eat a doe than sell her for $100 in milk. Sorry the last $100 doe left back in the early 90's here.

The difference...folks who sell for these prices are then on the Talk sites at yahoo selling bucklings and doelings born this last spring for little to nothing. Yet they are still breeding all their goats every year. If you can't sell what you produce why are you producing it? You rarely see me on any list hawking my stock, now something for sale in my area, sure, something for sale in my friends herds, sure, something that comes back as doe kid back and I decide not to keep her, sure...because they aren't on my sales list to have deposits on them before the doe was bred or kids.

Nobody on this forum can grow out a doe like the doe above for only $150, yet you will sell her for that? That head, rump and conformation was there at 1 day old, sell her for $150 then.

Perhaps someone can explain their economics on their farm for all of us that explains how you can be selling milkers for this amount? I have tried to explain mine.

Still would love to talk to the spouse of these hobby farms who are footing the bill for all of this. Vicki

[Kazahleenah]

I agree and understand with what you are saying Vicki, but here's one reason many people sell goats for far less than they are worth...

Many people have one, or a few goats that they milk for home use. To milk them, they also must breed them. Rather than accumilate a large herd (and feed bill), they will sell the "extras" very reasonable, just to get rid of them.

Not everyone sells the milk, some people just use it in their own homes. I agree with what you posted, just wanted to offer one explination as to "why" some folks sell so cheaply.

Kaza