Is this a good deal?

[livinzoo]

I'm just starting my meat goat herd and looking for my foundation stock. I like the thought of getting bred does so I can get a few doe babies (hopefully) and then when I get a buck they will be unrelated. I want kiko cross goats because from all my researching them seem to do much better than boers in the southeast. I also don't care about papers as they will be for personal use.

I found a farm with two possibly bred does for sale. All his does for sale range from 50% Kiko to purebred Kiko and from white to solid black to somewhere in between. I'm not sure what percentage these three are.

Doe one weaned a single buck that weighed 50 lbs at 90 days. She is an 04 model

Doe two had a single doe that weaned 33 lbs. at 90 days. She is an 06 models.

Both are big frame proven does that have raised some great kids.

He has another large frame that raises good kids and she is an 01 model. She has a single doe that was just weaned at 33 lbs at 90 days. So I don't she is possibly bred.

I would need $200 for the first, 175 for second and 150 for the third. Some of the smaller does that aren't ready for a billy would go for 75.

What do you more experienced goat keepers think? Should I keep looking? If so what are some things to look for.

[chris30523]

I am not sure where you are located but an unregistered kiko/cross doe here goes for about $120.00 You can usually get weanlings for about $60.00.I would keep looking and compare.The 01 doe is a bit old I would pass on her for sure. Weaning weight is not a good indicator. If they only have a single kid the weaning weight will be higher. I have a doe who had twins,and triplets her first 3 years and their weaning weights were about 30lb apiece.She had a single buck last year and he weaned at around 70lbs.She is only and example.

[Cannon_Farms]

That is way to high, I wasnt asking but a 150 for my best doe.
Did you ask about the CL testing?
Goats in Ga are kinda low right now on the market with winter coming up. The goats im trying to get you to come look at are less than 100, depending on who you like.

[sungirl]

Price is way to high for these does. I don't know the Kiko breed very well, but these are poor weanling weights. My Boer/Saanen wethers weaned at 60 pounds. (weaned at 4 months) Our Boers tend to wean some what higher then that.

Patty.

[QoTL]

Here was my thought. They each only threw a single? I would be interested to know what past kidding looked like on each of these girls. Personally, I prefer a doe who will at least throw twins. 3 does, one kid each,each throws a buck, and you have no new stock for that breeding season. With more kids, you have a better chance of doelings.

I don't raise goats for meat, but if I did I guess I'd also want the disease testing done, and want to know dress-out weights. And I agree, the '01 doe is creeping up on elderly. You won't get many more kids out of her.

[Cannon_Farms]

people that raise the goats for meat, care less about CL but why its important to me, as the foundation does I have Id like to have for a long time no matter if they become obsolete in my program so I dont want abcesses on them and have that to deal with.

[ozark_jewels]

As for the does having singles, that is directly related to their nutrition. So its very likely that they could have twins or trips if slowly brought up to a higher nutrition plane. I have some friends who have Kikos in Arkansas. They commonly only have singles if bred when browse is sparse because that is all they get. They aren't hurting for food themselves but they certainly concieve fewer kids.

[DQ]

30 lbs at three months isn't even achieving the 10lbs a month min weight gain for dairy goats unless they were were born at 3lbs . That also could be related to the nutritional/parasite/mineral problems that resulted in singles. don't go by what breed promoters tell you about parasite resistance. ask how often they (particular goats) are wormed. how it is determnied that they need worming. If they don't worm much but are weaning underweight kids and having singles often every year that isn't proving they are parasite resistant that is saying they just don't bother worming them. I've Never personally been impressed with any meat conformation characteristics in a kiko. They jsut look rangy and scrawny to me but maybe no one is breeding good ones around here. or they are just gaining popularity and people are breeding anything with kiko lines and selling it as a kiko. Don't be one of the people in the market for goats that buy just because it has the name you want adn some website or book tells you they have the characteristics you want. personally decide wether the individual goats you are looking at meet the guidlines you set. Everyone thinks their breed is hardy, freindly, easy to manage, and has superior traits.

[copperpennykids]

Those are not very good weaning weights at all!

I have a Boer Doe that kidded with triplets and her two bucklings at 7 weeks of age were 50 lbs. each. Her doeling was smaller (about 30 lbs) but she was a pipsqueak when she was born, probably conceived a week after her brothers.

I have another doe that kidded with Quads and at 6 weeks of age they were:
buck: 34 lbs.
doe : 28 lbs.
doe : 26 lbs.
doe : 26 lbs. That's a total of 114 lbs. in 6 weeks, vs. 50 lbs of goat the Kikos produced in 90 days.

On average, our does, both Boer and Boer Percentages that kid with twins wean at 8 weeks with 38-45 lb. kids, which is when the 4-H kids come to pick them up for their fair projects, and we weigh them on our digital farm scale before they load them.

So either the genetics aren't there, the management is poor (wormer?) which would indicate that maybe the Kikos aren't so much better for your area after all, or the feed is very poor. I wouldn't figure on lots of years of kidding and productivity if these does have been draining from their own reserves just to raise these kids.

What is their CAE/CL status?

[chris30523]

The weaning weights on my boer/kikos are between 30-40 lbs without creep feeding.Mine are on browse and hay only.I wean at 3mos.The comparison between my boers and kikos is different. My boers do weigh more at weaning but they all level off after about 6mos. I also would be concerned with them only having singles .All of mine have multiples most of the time.Like I said it is hard to tell anything based on weaning weights of the kids. It depends on to many different things,feed,parasites,etc. I would look at the health and well being of the does. Too fat,Too thin,scruffy coat.

[Goat Servant]

Everyone has pointed out some important variables...crucial variables as to why the weaning weights are low. They might not even give BoSe, another possible reason for only delivering singles, on top of feeding & worming management.
All my girls % & purebred Boers track records have been trips, one FF had twins. She never got BoSe right before breeding.(she was too squirrely back then)
Take a look around, take your time, ask lots of questions of the breeders.And here too!

[sungirl]

Originally Posted by Goat Servant

Everyone has pointed out some important variables...crucial variables as to why the weaning weights are low. They might not even give BoSe, another possible reason for only delivering singles, on top of feeding & worming management.
All my girls % & purebred Boers track records have been trips, one FF had twins. She never got BoSe right before breeding.(she was too squirrely back then)
Take a look around, take your time, ask lots of questions of the breeders.And here too!

I do not give BoSe. My younger Boers most times have twins. My older does 9 chances out of 10 we get triplets.

Patty.

[mylala]

check out the American kiko goat Assoc. www.kikogoats.com and the international kiko goat assoc. www.theikga.org Look at the various members websites and what their weaning rates are, and prices. You will find that registered does from a good breeder will range from $200 for a 50% kiko all the way up to $600-800 or more for a 100% NZ. Un-registered commercial kiko should be around $100 or so. For whatever reason it seems kiko goats, and boer goats are more expensive to purchase than most dairy goats.