Goat Feed Mix - need opinions

boilerjoe_96 · #1 10/07/08, 03:40 PM

980 lbs. Cracked Corn
144 lbs. Oats
356 lbs. Soybean Meal
330 lbs. Beet Pulp
45 lbs. 2:1 Mineral
5 lbs. E-SE Fortifier
20 lbs. TM Salt
4 lbs. Mag Oxide
10 lbs. Yeast
20 lbs. Deccox 1.0 Crumbles
106 lbs. Liquid Molasses

This is a recipe from the person I bought my Boer's from. What do you all think? Should I use it?

Terre d'Esprit · #2 10/07/08, 06:35 PM

The nutrition needs will vary depending on the breed/gender/weight gain requirements of your goats. Do they have access to pasture? Are you growing the goats, or just maintaining their weight? So I used Langston University's calculator to come up with some rough estimates for your goats and of your ration. Here are the assumptions:

Boer or Boer cross
mature does, 150 pounds, with no desired weight gain
access to pasture, but stable ground, minimal activity

These goats would (estimated) need 10% (or .19 pounds) protein, and a TDN level of 60, and taken in approximately 2.26 lbs of dry matter.

Here is how it all shakes out:
Nutrient / Required / Your Recipe
Crude Protein/ .19 / .33
Calcium / 4.55 / 2.23
Phosphorus / 3.18 / 3.25

I'd review your protein requirements, and the calcium/phosphorus ratio is flipped.

boilerjoe_96 · #3 10/07/08, 06:57 PM

wow... I am going to have to find that calculator... Thank you very much...

Assume alfalfa hay fed free choice with a 4:1 ratio fo C:P.....

Your assumptions are right on otherwise...

DQ · #4 10/07/08, 07:30 PM

here is a link http://www.luresext.edu/goats/resear...ionmodule1.htm its really cool! enter the info about the goats and then click enter feeds. click on the feeds you want to try out. then continue and play with poundage of feeds for a daily ration. the dietary needs (approx of course) are displayed at the bottom to compare.

fyi the weight calculater using girth measurments is pretty off. mine taped at 100 ish lbs and the are only 85 ish when I weighed with the scale this weekend.

KSALguy · #5 10/07/08, 07:50 PM

with that much soy i would not feed any bucks with it, soy messes with estrogen in human males and can cause alergys in livestock, if the does get along with it thats fine but i would not feed a buck soy

KSALguy · #6 10/09/08, 12:51 AM

Feeding Experiment

go and read this thread on the rabbit page, there is a study done on Soy that would be REALLY good for anyone thinking about feeding soy, take especial note on how it affected the calfs and the sheep, infertility amung a host of other problems is not something you want in a livestock program of any kind,

boilerjoe_96 · #7 10/09/08, 09:24 AM

I had no idea until your post.... I did look into it more, I have a coworker who is a vegetarian, I thought he ate lots of soy, found a not so nice summary of affects and forwarded... I really did not know this.....

So protein should come from? Legumes? only?

What other source of protein should be used...

Jeanette · #8 10/09/08, 12:08 PM

There are a number of ways you could boost your protein, but I would definitely back off on the corn. It's protein is incomplete and while it is a good carb, it mostly builds fat; it is like candy for most animals that's why deer hunters use it. Corn intensive diets can kill cattle. (recent article in Mother Earth News)
You would be better off with alfalfa as one of your protein sources. Mature alfalfa is 15% protein by volume and has a 6:1 calcium-phosphorous ratio. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...P=A&A=1297&S=4
Black oil sunflower seed (BOSS) also had a high quality plant protein. Right now I am feeding a variety of seeds and grains that average about 12% protein. See if you can find Dove or Pigeon mix in your area - dove mix contains several legumes and usually has other high quality seeds in as well.
Whatever you do - don't use Soy. If you read the rabbit post that KSalguy mentioned (my post) you can see that soy is good for the soil but not so good for people and animals in general.

Jeanette
Hondo, TX

Always Learning!

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #9 10/09/08, 12:52 PM

Soy and Corn have been fed for generations and will continue to do so. Corn may be an incomplete protein but it is fed for fat and energy not protein.

If you were impressed enough to buy stock from them, you aren't impressed enough to continue their program until you gain some knowledge in the area of nutrition and how it effects overall herd health? I can't imagine taking likely bred does to kid in the spring and think you are going to learn on the internet what to switch to...we can't see your stock, we don't even know your goals with your stock. I would continue until spring with this feed they are used to, then slowly switch to more cost effective grains that are local to you.

With feeding free chocie alfalfa hay you certainly do not need to be feeding this smorgsboard of products. Oats for carbs and calories, corn for fat and energy and unless your alfalfa is lower than 17% in protein what exactly are you feeding more protein for? Adding BOSS etc...is the most expensive fat you can find to feed.

Yes add the decox for your kids next year, but if you are feeding any of this to your bucks you need to add ammonium chloride to the mix. Do they really feed this to their bucks? Even with free choice alfalfa hay to the bucks you would have to very limitedly feed them this high phosphrous mix.

Always check out the stock via their website of the folks you are getting information from...even area is huge. And make all changes slowly. Like take a month to move from the old feed to the new. Vicki

boilerjoe_96 · #10 10/09/08, 04:05 PM

Vickie, the reason I asked is currently, they are getting alfalfa hay that I produce(btw C:P ratio is 4:1 is what I produce, I get mine tested regularly), and then some TSC bought goat food, from Kent Feeds. About 1 cup per day.

Was I impressed with the operation. He....ck no. Goats were in poor shape, hoofs weren't trimmed in ages, they looked like elf feet. This recipe was on their website, when I picked up the goats, I didn't see any of this feed around. For that matter I didn't see much of anything they could eat.

I got registered Boers 2 fullbloods, 1 Purebred and 2 percentage does(nubian/boer) with good height(thinking of wether producers here). My goal is to get started with Boers. These were $100 each. Cheap, poor condition, but starter registered goats. In a sense...I rescued them. What are they for? Well I have a 7 and 5 year old girl that want to show something. We won't win but at this stage it is about learning to take care of the goats(see the one I lost due to bloat), prepare them for show, train them to behave when on leash, etc. In the end the first group of kids, that can't be registered due to prior owner lack of knowledge of which buck did the deed, will end up as meat goats.

Vickie, while you seem to be very knowledgable on goats(and it is appreciated), you do have your own special way of communicating....(I am being nice)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #11 10/09/08, 04:25 PM

Well now we have an real idea of your goals and the poor condition of your goats, which is needed. I just couldn't imagine buying from someone like in your first post...all the alfalfa they want and on this over the top ration, expensive...and you want to change because of what reason? So now we know they weren't even feeding it. You are correct the Dumore feed doesn't Du-much.

Feet can be trimmed but it's amazing that they are feeding alfalfa hay and have goats in poor condition. What do you need to improve your alfalfa hay they get? Some calories and energy for growing kids the last 50 days of pregnancy, while nursing kids and to grow out the show kids? You certainly don't need to spend the kind of money on a feed mix like that when you already have really nice hay. Why not just whole oats and chopped or crimped corn and the mineral mix idea in the mix, dependant on what you can get at a local mill. Providing a good loose mineral and with boers instead of graining does who are not in the last 50 days of pregnancy or nursing kids why not try one of the all veggy, no urea or cottonseed meal or mineral oil....protein licks, they provide energy also.

Most goats in poor condition with great hay and some feed in front of them is worms.

Just don't think that volumes of grain is what will fix these goats, you have the best start you can imagine with your alfalfa hay.

Whatever you decide make changes slowly, filling them full of grain right now will give you acidosis, bloat and founder.

Learning to fecal is a great project for your children, this way you know when you need to worm, what to worm with and if it works. If cocci is a problem in your herd. Then you won't have to worry about someone not being nice enough on a forum...or better you can talk to all the really nice folks instead of getting good answers, because I type rough.

Read your first post and now read your second...huge difference with info...now could you see where I was coming from? vicki

boilerjoe_96 · #12 10/10/08, 07:08 AM

Thank you Vickie. Perhaps I didn't explainmyself well enough. Thank You for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

Perhaps I still wasn't clear. I am not sure what THEY were feeding. I saw some crappy grass hay(not that grass hay is crappy, but THIS grass hay was crappy).

Right now they get 1 flake per goat morning and night.(too much? 13 flakes per 55 lb bale) Free choice mineral and baking soda.

Then 1 cup of a 16% Kent Feeds goat feed, 1 time per day.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #13 10/10/08, 03:55 PM

As long s they aren't wasting the hay I would give it to them. 1 flake per goat is alot, but not if they are in this poor condition. 1 cup of feed per day isn't really providing them with much, although nice to just get them to come to you once a day to eat. If you didn't have any problems moving them to your nice hay, especially with this much out so quickly, than keep things like they are right now and see if they start gaining weight without having to up the grain.

Do you know if the does are bred? I would move does as they start to spring (show pregnancy, udder up) into a pen so they can get more grain that the bucks and dry does don't need. Vicki

Goat Servant · #14 10/11/08, 06:36 PM

This is what I do. Have been raising mostly Boers for only 4 yrs now.
The goats I bought were in great condition to begin with. She fed Boer Goat Developer & SweetLix loose along with free choice alfalfa. Not implying that the Kent feed you use is in any way inferior..I just have this philosopy that if for several generations the animal does well on whatever feed I continue on.
Example we had a Visla who did well on Science Diet. Breeder only used that Whenever we switched feed on him he developed dry skin. Even feeding brands just as good.
For the goats I have not tweaked much of anything but a handful of BOSS at grain time and a tablespoon livestock yeast; which is twice daily a couple of weeks before breeding, slowly working up the amounts which is about 1 1/2 lbs pr feeding, then slowly decreasing. They dont get any more grain till a couple of weeks before kidding and on thru till weaning.
I have also tweaked her feet trimming sched, as she lives on the dry side of the state so we have to do it more often here.
So far the only ones we have lost is a doe who died 4 days after her first kidding. She had in her mummified baby and went down fast. Then another one, a newborn got laid on while dam was delivering the rest. Had I been there it wouldnt have happened. Bam. Instant Cabrito Pancake.