Doe not chewing cud

moonspinner · #1 09/26/08, 03:44 PM

I have a 7 yr old mini doe who has me baffled. it started a couple weeks ago where I noticed she wasn't eating hay during the afternoon. But otherwise acted fine. Then this past week she has largely not touched hay in morning/afternoon til late afternoon. In the mornings she will browse on some apples, pears that have fallen from the trees, eat leaves and her grain. But then no interest in hay. Then when I let the gang out to graze around 5:00 pm she will turn it around and eat normally, including hay. She is not bloated, normal temp, but I have only seen her chew cud minimally and briefly. Haven't seen her drink a lot of water either. She mainly stands or lies around during the day, then springs to life later in the afternoon. UTD on worming. Gums/eyelids look good, perhaps a shade off.
I've given her B complex shots, Probios, baking soda. It has me stumped because every goat I've had who's not chewing cud has not been interested in eating at all and is usually a bit bloated for a day or two.
How long can goats go without ruminating? And any ideas what could cause this? Parasites sound like the first suspects but won't know that til new week when she sees the vet. I also thought maybe apples and hopa crab apples might cause some toxicity, but she's been eating them all her life with no ill effects. She's in with 13 other does; all fine. Could this be something serious? Thanks for all insights.

dragonchick · #2 09/26/08, 04:24 PM

Maybe shes just not a morning goat. Seriously though, watch her left side to see if you see ANY rumen movement. If shes chewing cud, even if rarely, its got to be functioning somewhat I would think. I would keep giving her pro-bios . That should get things going and won't hurt if she doesn't exactly need it. Maybe steal a cud from a healthy goat and give it to her. Try giving her weak koolaid to get her to drink more. Mine love the cherry.
DC

jill.costello · #3 09/26/08, 04:42 PM

YES YES YES, steal a cud! ProBios doesn't provide what real rumen bacteria will.

If you absolutely CAN'T steal a cud, an option is to (this is yucky) get a FRESH goat or cow stomach from the butcher and use that juice...

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #4 09/26/08, 04:52 PM

You will start seeing neurological symptoms since all b vitamins are made in a healthy rumen.

Understand that if what you say is true that she is not ruminating she will die. It's vet time. Take a healthy goat with you so they can transplant cud. Vicki

dragonchick · #5 09/26/08, 05:55 PM

I remember seeing on here where someone was unable to steal a cud for a sick goat and they used a q-tip swabbed in a healthy goats mouth. Supposedly this was to transfer healthy bacteria from one goat to the other. It had to be done very quickly as the bacteria would die.
DC

moonspinner · #6 09/26/08, 06:56 PM

Since the vet isn't available til next week (isn't it always the way!) I'm going to try and collect some cud. How much do I need, can I take some from more than one goat, and do I place it at the back of her mouth or in her cheek? I'm surprised that a q-tip's worth of bacteria would do the trick?
Finally, what would cause this rumen problem? The doe has not shown overt signs of illness.
I definitely did not see any cud chewing from her today and I was out there a lot.

dragonchick · #7 09/26/08, 07:28 PM

I think it needs to me mixed with liquid and drenched down her throat, otherwise they spit it out. Be careful stealing that cud, they don't like to give it up and those molars are sharp. I don't think it takes a whole lot. Just collect what you can and give it to her.
DC

dragonchick · #8 09/26/08, 07:50 PM

Here is how Vicki steals a cud.
How to get cud from a goat....

dragonchick · #9 09/27/08, 07:47 AM

How is the girl this morning? Were you successful in stealing a cud?
DC

moonspinner · #10 09/27/08, 10:15 AM

When I got up this morning I did see her chewing - don't know how long she'd been at it. Have not seen her chewing since then, but she did eat some hay in the morning for the first time in several days. I hope that's a good sign but not counting on anything til I see her regularly ruminating and acting like her old self. I'm out to try to snag a cud right now!
Thanks for asking!

moonspinner · #11 09/28/08, 08:14 AM

Yesterday I saw my doe cud chewing 3 separate times and this morning as well - tada! So apparently the Probios and B shots were effective. She's still not 100% but improving and eating more hay now. Hopefully she'll continue to recover and I won't need to steal any cuds!!
Thanks for all the input.

PlowGirl · #12 09/28/08, 09:10 AM

When you're watching your doe to see if she's chewing her cud, are you staring her down? I have a number of goats who will quit chewing if you stare at them. Mostly the timid and somewhat skittish ones. Watch her without directly staring AT her and see if she's not chewing her cud more than you've previously observed.