Plugged Wether 2 y o

[lupiefarmer]

Feist is a pygmy that is about 2 years old that has no temperature, was straining to pee but was pooping. We gave him penicillin 10 - 2 x per day and it got better (it was a hunch - he did it before and this worked). Well 2 days ago when I went in he was peeing but now when he pees he is acting like he is trying to throw up. He is definitely not able to pass a normal poo. They are small little things. I think that he may have gotten into a sheet of cardboard outside the fence (He has a tendency to be my favorite escape artist). I found little hoof prints outside the fence where the cardboard was all ripped up.

I wormed them all about 4 weeks ago. I use a feed type thing that I mix into their food it has worked with them right along.
His lungs sound clear,there has been no change in grain or feed other than the fact that I think he may have gotten into the cardboard.

Any ideas what else I can do? Maybe mineral oil?

[picklespickles]

i really don't know and i wish someone was here to answer. jsut wanted to say good luck and maybe someone can help tomorrow. anything with goats, pretty much people say give mineral oil. i just don't know.

[starcids6]

I am not sure of the spelling but it sounds like (unrinary calculi) basically it's like kidney stones in humans. We had a wether with it a couple years ago the vet said to isolate him and give him salt on top of his food (or lick it off your hand if he will) to make him thirsty so he will drink. he needs to drink lots of water. You can also google it and get other treatments but you have to treat it early.

[fishhead]

If he's straining to pee it sounds like UC. He'll need some ammonium chloride and it needs to be done NOW. If you don't have any try to find another goat owner, feed store or contact your vet this morning. A vet can also give him acepromozine (sp). It will relax him and make it easier for him to pass the stone.

If he blocks up completely you will have to put him down. Death by UC means the bladder bursts inside and is very painful.

What has he been eating? Grain?

Mineral oil is a laxative and won't solve this.

[fishhead]

Here's a good webpage that describes what may be happening and what needs to be done.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm

My wethers pee right after standing up so that's a good time to check.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Fishhead is right, I have had a buck with UC & it is terrible. With the help of my vet to do the Urethra process while I holded him & lots of AC to start( he now gets a certain amount everyday for his size & weight) he is back to normal & is doing great. BUT this is very serious & painful & a miserable death for your little friend if you don't get on it immediately! If he gets completely blocked it will take about a week for his bladder to burst inside him I believe.
The grain he gets, along with your water, his system or all of them can be the culprits & antibiotics will not save him or cure him.
It's been since this past Feb. & my Nigie buck is great now! THANK GOD I had done alot of reading on this forum & knew the symptoms of Urinary Calculi which thats what I bet your little guy has, they will strain to pee, can make their rectum look swollen & puffed up, will still poop but can be harder for him since his bladder is huge right now!
Please let us know how he does & really call your vet or a experienced goat person you know that's close enough to help.
Alot of your feed stores will sell the Ammonium Chloride to you in smaller bags.

P.S Quit giving him grain, only hay right now! The grain is probly a big part of what caused this problem.

[BethW]

Fishhead and Backfourty are right, and if he's completely blocked, giving him more water will just make it worse fast. You likely need a vet at this point. Poor boy

[mary,tx]

When I brought home little bucks with this problem, I was able to just pick up ammonium chloride at the feed store, sold here by the ounce. It is very inexpensive. Dissolve as much as you can of it in water, and pop it in the back of his mouth with a needleless syringe. You can do this a few times a day. It tastes nasty, and burns, so you might want to add a little molasses.

It cleared mine up very quickly. Urinary calculi is not a problem that can be fixed with antibiotics. You must get on this right away, or you can quickly lose him.

And, as noted by someone else, this is likely brought on by his grain ration.

mary

[lupiefarmer]

Thanks everyone... I have been on a quest for ammonium chloride. No luck. He is not getting any grain only hay. I gave him the salt this morning and he had put himself into a separate pen so I just shut the door and left him in there with the water and the salt and hay. I keep track of the little guy, he is the family "pest". He has been known to knock me into a 55 gallon (plastic blue barrel) and I swear he was laughing when I got back up out of it. (Being weak from being sick it really isn't too hard to move me and when its empty well!)

So - questions. In my mind it made sense in the beginning that he had the UC stuff. I had assumed that is what he had before and just pushed along with him. we did push water on him then too now that I think of it. But I didn't remember him not being able to poop. Granted he started out fine then went to not really being able to then now we get a bit. I am assuming with the inflammation of the bladder that is causing the problem? No room for other stuff to move?

I am heading for fiasco farms and also have a call into the vet for amm.chl. and ideas for this little guy. None of my feed stores have any ammonium chl. - I have one about an hour away I still have to call. Hopefully they will have something. I hate these vets - they will call me back by the end of the day!

Thanks for th ehelp. I really do appreciate it all. We all love him so much, you know how it is - you love all the goats but then one or two start being a bit extra special in your heart. Thats a whole 'nother thread!

Laurie (vtfarma)

[fishhead]

Do any of your neighbors have goats? A goat dairy within driving distance? Lots of people keep it on hand. Your pharmacy may even carry it. It's worth a call. Even a "pet" vet should be able to help if you don't have a large animal vet.

The bladder isn't inflamed if he has UC. What happens is phosphorus forms a stone that blocks his plumbing. Sometimes the stone lodges right at the very tip of the penis. In that case the tip can be snipped off. In other cases it's possible to massage it out with the help of acepromozine to relax the muscles. UC happens when phosphorus and calcium get out of balance from eating phosphorus rich feed like grain and no calcium rich food like alfalfa.

Good luck! I'd get everything ready so when you get the AC you can give it to him ASAP.

[Chaty]

You can get AC from www.hoeggergoatsupply.com and it comes in a 1 lb bag. I keep it on hand cause when you need it you cant find it. I hope you vet has some and I would order some just in case.

[Sweet Goats]

You have to get Ammonia Chloride RIGHT NOW. The longer you wait the slower he will die.
I sold a wether that i just loved to death. The first goat we ever bought. Well the lady that bought him loved him to death also. She called me and told me what was going on. I told her what it was and that she needed a vet out there now to put him down. (he was already on the ground throwing himself around). Well she was at the Air Port boarding a plain to be with her mother as she was being taken off life support. I took off to her place and it about killed me seeing my baby like that.

PLEASE do not wait. After I saw him I went and bought some AC to have on hand for my guys.

[lupiefarmer]

I have asked the vet's office that I usually use if they carry it and they have no clue about, nor does the other vet office that the only other person that has goats around here uses, and they are new at goats. Then I have called all the regular vets - I am just expressing I guess from somewhere online and hoping that a vet visit will work... This really irks me that the wonderful local vets that we have are so good with the goats that they don't have this stuff?

The sad part of all this is that around these parts it seems that I am the person with the most experience (our family anyways) we help people deliver their babies and with other things but this one is one that had me. Thanks I am still a nubie comparatively and always will be.

Laurie vtfarma

[lupiefarmer]

Well I cancelled the vet that was supposed to be coming. The very first thing out of his mouth had to do with surgical intervention. Sorry, I really think he is getting better - he is up and he actually heard the grain on the outside of the door when i was graining the girls (chickens) and plowed through the door for the cracked corn... woa (I can't spell stop in horse today. It has been a long day.) He is really hungry right now which is good - he just didn't want the hay that he had and he is peeing some but I am still badgering vet that our dogs go to to give us the AC now. They said it is a prescription... I said dear I can buy it online for $3.25 for a 2 lb bag - give me a break this is me you are talking to here. I still don't have it. My husband is stopping on the way home.

Well, this is what we have accomplished - We have AC. Its on its way to feist from a very nice compounding pharmacy about 3 towns over. My husband, the sweety that he is, had just pulled in to the house when I figured out where the stuff was,turned around and went to get it for me. It ended up costing me $20.00 for enough to mix with 2 quarts for a plugged goat. It will last for six months mixed. So I'll mix a quart or a pint and put some away in my animal med area. Our regular small animal vet would not give it to them without a vet calling in. I called them back and told them I got it without a prescription from the pharmacy mixing place that does all their special orders (with no problems!) but thanks anyway. Time to switch from this vet too. When I take the dog in on Saturday I think we will have a talk.

So as soon as Ron pulls in Feist will begin treatment. Hopefully he wi;; be back to his annoying self in the morning!

Thanks everyone for the help. I knew I could depend on you folks.

Laurie (vtfarma)

[Janis Sauncy]

My vet is pretty adamant that wethers do not need grain. He firmly states that people tend to "kill them with kindness" by giving grain. He also says the only goats who need grain are the "producing" ones, such as bred and lactating does and "working" bucks (breeding season).

I have sold a number of goats to people who were replacing those lost to UC.

Pygmies, especially, are vulnerable due to the size of their urethra.

If you've been giving grain and plan to continue to do so, you should do some serious research and then decide.

Janis

[fishhead]

I believe the dosage is on that Fiasco link I posted.

[lupiefarmer]

Thank you fishhead I found it. I was just quick to post.

I have my girls, then my working buck that I got from Jillis who is in with my girls right now and 2 wethers. 1 little guy who is about 5 months old and feist. I have been feeding much less grain,basically switching to grain only for the girls but Gremmie our buck still wants his taste. He gets a tiny bit. Feist will bull in everywhere. He is the proverbial garbage can. We have been changing the barn set-up around so that as I start milking the girls this time (I missed getting started back up on the last round of pregnancies because I have been too sick to milk) I will have more control of the grain situation and who is in the milking area. It is important to me to be sure the animals are on more of the grass/browse etc type feed / basically grain free as much as possible. I am trying to take care of their health and mine by doing that. It has been a slow process this summer. The whole lot of 20 goats get 2 scoops of grain for the night and then the browse and grass/hay. I don't think they are really over done... no one is chunky - our wild apple trees are being trimmed out back, the maples and others are having the bark chewed off, all the brush is gone and the lawn is mowed... but feist still is a bulldozer when it comes to grain. Are there problems in what I am trying to do?

Laurie

[fishhead]

If he's a bulldozer he might surprise you in how much of the grain he's getting. Goats aren't shy about taking every last bit of grain and leaving nothing for the others. The only way to be sure is to keep the ones you don't want to get grain out of the area when you are feeding.

Last winter I gave my wethers some grain every morning and every night. The morning ration got coated with corn oil and then AC. They also got alfalfa to balance out the P:C ratio.

[ann fr]

I had this happen with my sons pet wether,who was not feed any grain.We found that he was escaping from his pen into the calfs pen and helping them eat thier grain. They can be tricky buggers . I hope he improves rapidly.

[BethW]

I'm so glad you got your hands on some AC! It's so frustrating to hear folks struggle to find some when I have a big bag in my laundry room just sitting there.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for Feist. And Tango, Peanut and Brownie send their best wishes for a speedy recovery!