Thoughts for new guy on homestead goat?

[RangerBrad]

Howdy folks, I've been thinking about what I want in a first goat and thought yal maybe able to help me. To give you some info to work with. First off I live on three acres of 1/2 wooded and 1/2 grass. I have a family of 5, three young children ages 7,9 and 11 (the oldest and youngest are boy's) plus me and the wife. The children love milk and want it at every meal(and in between) as for the wife and my self, we seldom drink milk but use it in cooking often and the family also goes through a truck load of cheese. What I would like to see is the brushy/wooded areas cleaned up(I don't care if they eat or kill every tree out there) I would like to get enough milk to supply our current and near expected needs (2-3 gal. a week on avg) with enough milk left over to make a little cheese with. I will be using purly electric fencing at least in the begining untill the brush is cleared. I am not intending to start a goat farm so the offspring will either be sold or fed out and butchered depending on avaliable space for them. I would prefer a young doe (or two)either bred or at breeding age preferably from a reputable breeder so I can walk away with a reasonable expectation of breedability, longevity and milk production. The doe being full blood or registered is not important to me as I will not be in the breeding buissness but the things written above are. Some of my questions are what types/ breeds of goats sound suitable for my desires? How many goats should I get to fill my needs? How many goats can I put on 1-1.5 acres of brush and dense hardwood hill side? What would be a reasonable expectation of cost to get what I'm looking for from a reputable breeder(remember I'm not getting her for breeding stock)? What time of year would be the best and economical time to purchase what I'm looking for? Etc...Any of this or other advice yal can give me is greatly appreciated. Thank's, Brad

[XCricketX]

You sound like a "down-to-earth, wanting to take care of your family type homesteader".

Buy from people who are like you... which is probably why you are asking here first. ^_^

A lot of people breed for show, or show AND production. Then there are breeders who are just wanting a goat who will be disease resistant, grow-well, and actually provide the milk... which could include the other two types depending on the breeder.

I would go out to the goat farm and really listen to your gut feelings about things... examine cleanliness, and ask lots of questions. See if they are honest and tell you everything up front.
Ask around town about the breeder to see if there is a good reputation about them.

Do they have several animals that are sick, and they shrug it off like it is a "normal" goat trait? That is a BIG clue to me that they are not honest about everything!

Look at the whole herd for overall health as well, but also be aware that they may heavily cull out problems so their herd "appears" beautiful. Unfortuneatly, ignorant newbies get taken advantaged a lot, so take an experienced goat friend if you have one to go and look with ya.

You could probably find a goat at auction around here for $35 (so I'm told) but I would NEVER risk it and I hope I never have to!!! LOL!!!
There are too many possible problems going that route...

A good reputable breeder will charge anywhere from $100 - $1500 (about low and high end spectrum) *I'm no expert on pricing from a breeders perspective because I am NOT a breeder, but a buyer for my own family* and from that perspective I give this advice...

I would suggest "not" getting a baby as your first goat.. I would suggest a 2 year old who is about 4 weeks into milking... if your budget doesn't allow for that (older is more expensive), then go for a yearling doe that isn't a first time freshener yet and maybe even not bred yet... the reason I say this, is because this is a safe "newbie" stage that gives you the ability to leave an "inprint" into your goat's personality, give you the chance to get to know her before she's bred, and if you buy from a good breeder, they will help you walk through the breeding and birthing stages with you.

Course, you could start out with a baby from a good breeder as well, but it will be a whole year or more before you see milk, and the first-freshener as a first goat will be a ride you may not want to take, unless you've gotten used to her for some time first. I wouldn't suggest starting immediately with that stage since momma is newly growing her teats and has never been milked before.

Anyway (off my tangent) ... there are some good breeders around, and this forum has them. ^_^

As a side note.. I have really grown fond of the Alpine/Nubian cross as a "go it rough homesteady" type goat. I love the airplane ears and they seem to be very hearty! They can also give you a nice amount of milk that is JUST rich enough in butter fat, but I'm basing this off from my goats and haven't had VERY many yet.
I also enjoy my full blooded Nubians as well, don't get me wrong there!!! They are adorable and fun!

Cricket

[XCricketX]

oh.. also the butterfat content is pretty high in Nubian and their crosses.. so this is pretty good for butter and cheeses.
I've made cheeses from my only milker at the moment (which is a nubian/alpine cross) and it has turned out pretty good!
I had a boer that I milked for a bit, and she had REALLY rich milk... but she narely gave me much of it.
An alpine/boer or a saanen/boer might be a good cross... don't know for sure though.
I know nubian/boer crosses seem to be pretty popular as well.. for a dual purpose meat/milk goat.

I'm sure someone will come in an enlighten me further on this though.

Cricket

[thaiblue12]

You cannot get just one goat. They are a herd animal and are not happy living alone. What would probably work great for you and your family is to get a doe in milk with a kid. Doeling would be great but a wether kid would work too. This way you have a doe ready to milk and a kid for your kids to have fun with. Start with two and see if you guys can do the milking twice daily, care and etc. If so then you can add a doe or two down the line.
They are additive, just so ya know

[cathleenc]

I'd call the local vet offices and see if anyone has a goat dairy near you - or if they know who has goats. Do the same at the local feed mills/feed stores. Maybe 4h or ffa. Then call that/those goat owners and introduce yourself and ask if they would be willing to show you around & teach you a few things. I might not even mention that you are looking to buy at this point. Anything you can learn upfront will help when you are ready to make that purchase.

I bought 2 older does who had milked before - and who had been hand-milked by children. Got them for $120 for the pair. They are not the highest quality goats but perform well for us - more than enough milk for our family - and they provided a really safe entry into goats. We've since purchased a very high quality milking doeling to add to the group and will only upgrade from here.

Make sure to have any purchase contingent upon getting acceptable test results for cae, johannes, and cl. These are nasty goat diseases that can cripple your farm for years if the goats test positive.

gl!

[mygoat]

While your family may love milk alot, owning a lactating animal is not easy.

All births are attended to avoid problems. Kids are pulled immediately at birth and raised on strict CAE prevention. Often, the schedule starts out with 6x per day feedings and decreases to 3x per day for the majority of 3 months per kid. It does eventually go down to 2x and 1x per day. All that milk must be pasturized before feeding it to the kids, or else buy them cow's milk. A cheap pasturizer is a digital turkey frier. (I found one at Cabelas for 150.00 - cheap, considering pasteurizers usually cost 400+. I also use it to scald chickens and cook in it, too.)

If you choose to dam raise kids, you may spread diseases to your kids through the milk and dam raised kids will never be as friendly or command the same prices as bottle raised kids. They are more difficult to train to the milkstand and are harder to handle.

Besides the kid schedule, a dairy doe must be milked 2x per day for as long as you want her in milk, usually 10 months. This will keep her at peak production and prove her worth as a dairy animal.

And while you may be in it 'just for milk', keep in mind breed standards and conformation are not written simply to be 'pretty'. The ideal animal, which is what you should be breeding for, would be built and able to produce the most amount of milk over the course of a long, long life. And, the better stock you have, the easier it is to sell stock and command higher prices.

[deafgoatlady]

Hey Brad. Good thinking.. I understand what you thinking. I would get a clean goats without disease going on. That is first thing you need to think about it. Be sure they are hardy milking goats. Be sure get two. Not one or the goat will be miserable. I would use nubian/crosses or ANY kind of milking goats but not meat goats becuz they dont give enuff milk. But if u are looking for heavy milker then saneen will be the best option becuz they gives LOTS of milk. But you can get saneen/cross. That will be great. Be sure get clean goats without disease. And be sure u have everything ready before you buy the goats and listen and watch carefully. It dont have to be registered. Just be sure they are hardy. You can make cheese for the family and milk and make bunch of good stuff out of the goats milk. Good Luck!!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Good answers already.

Don't purchase anything unless it comes with a CAE negative test. Nothing, no matter who the breeder or the spiel. Purchasing a bred yearling who is blood tested positive for pregnancy should be a really good buy right now as folks are looking at huge hay prices to keep stock over the winter. She then would have kids in a few months to keep herself company.

Since you dont' care about breed go for one of the lesser breeds, good Nubians are just way to expensive, so go LaMancha or Obie, or Saanen or crosses of the dairy breeds. Anything can be butchered for meat, but not everything can be milked. Milking crosses of Boer doesn't give you house milk for the 10 months you will want it.

Pray for a doeling out of your doe, which will then give you your second doe you will need. Keeping two does, one kidding in December the other in the early spring will keep you in milk year round. A good doe should eaisly give you half a gallon of milk a day on minimal input....she will start out with considerable more milk than this, but will level out to this eaisly. As an older doe she will give more.

I prefer folks who are buying on the cheap to purchase young yearlings so they are not buying someone elses mastitis problems or all the other reasons milkers are sold cheap.

Think about it, a doe who is giving house milk and really making the family $4 a day times 10 months...that's $1200 in income she produces...yet they sell her for $150....what is wrong with her?

Don't buy at auctions.
Don't buy a dairy goat from anybody who calls them nanny or billies.
Don't buy anything that isn't tested for CAE.


Look over the whole herd even though you are only buying one goat. Swollen knees, old gals walking on their front knees, abscess, big knots on the cheeks. Also read some worming threads, living in Arkansas you purchase does on herbal wormers and don't worm them with the stress of the move and they will not be milking long. or alive Get really good information on how to deal with the move in the heat and humidity we have.

Check out the 4sale on dairygoatinfo.com and read the forum especailly goatkeeping 101. You have some top breeders in your state, don't overlook their culls....and get yourself a buckling this early spring to breed your does next fall. Vicki

[ozark_jewels]

1 or 2 does sound like they could easily fill your familys needs. If you only want one doe, see about getting a bred doe with a wether as a companion. The wether can eat brush and keep your doe company until she kids, when you can decide to eat him or let him continue to eat brush.
The reason I say you may want two does is that if you dam-raise the kids(or bottle), you may be short on milk for the family, for those months that the kids need milk. So two does, stagger the breedings so one is always in milk, and you will have a steady supply of house milk.
For your needs I would reccomend a hardy goat, doesn't need to be a purebred so maybe a Lamancha or a Lamancha cross(I think the Lamancha is a very hardy animal and about perfect for the average homesteader). A Lamancha gives good milk, a decent amount of milk and she is hardy. She also crosses well with a Boer buck if you decide to breed Boer and butcher all the kids.
No need for you to bottle the kids if you don't want to. Especially if your going to butcher them, its much easier if they are dam-raised.
Get healthy animals from a breeder as you have said. That breeder should stand behind their goats and be there for you if you have questions or problems. Even though you just want family milkers, you need to buy does with good udders for a long productive life.
Around here you could pay anywhere from $150-$300 for a good doe such as I described. You don't need papers, but you do need production, health, conformation. Most of the times those come with papers, but never buy the papers, buy the goat. If she has or hasn't got papers, thats just a bonus on a good healthy homestead milker.
Now is a good time to be looking for milkers. People sell bred milkers in the fall, some dry, some still in milk. The next best time to look for milkers is in early to late spring when people are selling fresh does.

[bstuart29]

I don't own any goats or have any advice but just wanted to say thank you to all of ya, you all are so helpful to everyone and have learned so much from everyone here Maybe some day I will get some goats and will be able to help someone along the way like you all do

[Freeholder]

The only thing I want to add is that if there are still any county (or state) fairs going on in your area, it would be a good idea to go and check out the goats. Attend the goat judging if you can manage it. Often the judges will explain why they are placing one doe over another, especially if it's 4-H showing, but at least you would get to see some good goats -- the ones that take home the ribbons are what you want to look for.

Especially for goats that are going to be in brush, high, well-attached udders are very important. Don't get does with loose, dangly ones.

And of course we are each going to promote our favorite breed, LOL! Mine is the Oberhasli -- I think they are beautiful, love their temperament, and they have sweet-tasting milk with no off-flavors (in the few I've had so far, and their reputation is good).

However, the best thing to do is to buy your goats from a good breeder nearby, if at all possible. You don't want to have to keep a buck, so if you buy locally, you are likely to be able to take your does back for breeding at the place where you got them (make sure you talk to the breeder about that before you decide to buy).

Kathleen

[thaiblue12]

Originally Posted by bstuart29

I don't own any goats or have any advice but just wanted to say thank you to all of ya, you all are so helpful to everyone and have learned so much from everyone here Maybe some day I will get some goats and will be able to help someone along the way like you all do

You do not have any goats so do you just come here to harass poor Emily? Or do ya have a crush on her?

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by thaiblue12

You do not have any goats so do you just come here to harass poor Emily? Or do ya have a crush on her?

Aw, you giving Billy a hard time?? He needs it!
I think he is a goat owner wanna be and so lurks here a lot. One of these days I'm going to talk him into a cute little Nubian lady with beautiful looooong ears......or maybe a beautiful Lamancha lady with no ears at all.
I don't mind harrassment, I just harrass him right back!
He's a pretty nice guy, is Billy.

[bstuart29]

Originally Posted by thaiblue12

You do not have any goats so do you just come here to harass poor Emily? Or do ya have a crush on her?

Who is this Emily ya speak of

[bstuart29]

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Aw, you giving Billy a hard time?? He needs it!
I think he is a goat owner wanna be and so lurks here a lot. One of these days I'm going to talk him into a cute little Nubian lady with beautiful looooong ears......or maybe a beautiful Lamancha lady with no ears at all.
I don't mind harrassment, I just harrass him right back!
He's a pretty nice guy, is Billy.

See what I got to put up with
Yes Emily can take it and for sure dish it out Emily is corect i am a wanna be and maybe some day i will have a few goats. She is quite convincing so I'm sure I will some in the future Perhaps maybe a ear and a earless. Darn it Emily ya had to say that and ruin my reputation, now everyone will think I'm a nice guy. Thanks Emily ya are to sweet

[copperpennykids]

Originally Posted by mygoat

While your family may love milk alot, owning a lactating animal is not easy.

All births are attended to avoid problems. Kids are pulled immediately at birth and raised on strict CAE prevention. Often, the schedule starts out with 6x per day feedings and decreases to 3x per day for the majority of 3 months per kid. It does eventually go down to 2x and 1x per day. All that milk must be pasturized before feeding it to the kids, or else buy them cow's milk. A cheap pasturizer is a digital turkey frier. (I found one at Cabelas for 150.00 - cheap, considering pasteurizers usually cost 400+. I also use it to scald chickens and cook in it, too.)

If you choose to dam raise kids, you may spread diseases to your kids through the milk and dam raised kids will never be as friendly or command the same prices as bottle raised kids. They are more difficult to train to the milkstand and are harder to handle.

Besides the kid schedule, a dairy doe must be milked 2x per day for as long as you want her in milk, usually 10 months. This will keep her at peak production and prove her worth as a dairy animal.

And while you may be in it 'just for milk', keep in mind breed standards and conformation are not written simply to be 'pretty'. The ideal animal, which is what you should be breeding for, would be built and able to produce the most amount of milk over the course of a long, long life. And, the better stock you have, the easier it is to sell stock and command higher prices.

I am just going to have to disagree with some of this post (the beginning). We never feed our kids 6 X /day. 3 X/day is the most we bottle feed Saanen kids (and they grow up just fine, Thank you very much). Those who pastuerize many times have a lambar out free choice for kids when they pastuerize/bottle feed.

Many dairy breeders don't pastuerize, and even dam-raise (Rocky Run springs to mind, and she is an ADGA judge as well). If your herd (or the herd you buy from) has been CAE negative for years, then why do all of that extra work? Our whole herd of Boer goats is CAE negative, and trust me, I am not bottle feeding those kids! Their mommas raise them and since they are all negative, they all stay negative. (We bottle feed our Saanen kids as we like the bottle raised kid better and also because they can be pretty rough on their dams' udders, which doesn't help when you show.)

I would strongly recommend that you not be afraid to pay a little more in the beginning. The old saying "You get what you pay for" can really hold true. Serious breeders who test for CAE (and avoid other nasties) can and should command better prices. You should start with a healthy doe with good genetics that will stand up to the test of time (Form should support function). In other words, well-bred animals have the correct conformation and well-attached udders to milk, kid, and graze for many years.

And while you plan to eat the excess kids (and that's okay too) you may be able to sell a few to someone like yourself, and it is nice to know that you can ask a better price (and be doing your buyer a favor) than the yokel down the road selling their kids for $75.00.

If you get a well-bred dairy goat, you should plan on providing her with some alfalfa or alfalfa pellets 2 months before she kids and during her lactation. She will gain benefit from your browse, but will need some basic nutritional needs met if she is stay healthy and productive for many years.

Boy, I'd try to find a good dairy breeder who needs to move a few animals to keep their herd manageable - and most of all, try to find someone you feel that you can trust (and has clean animals!)

Camille

[thaiblue12]

Oh also check around to find any local goat dairies. One up north from me sells wether bottle kids for very little, extra doelings and sometimes a doe in milk. They are all raised on CAE prevention, already disbudded and etc.

Do not let too much info overwhelm you. When I was learning about goats I was trying to take in all the info, not do something wrong or go broke trying to buy all the things they supposedly need according to each article you read and each person you get info from. You find that everyone has their own style they are comfortable with. What works for some might not work for you. What is available to them ie, goats, minerals and etc might not be able to you in your area. To me the 3 basic/musts are good food, good hay and good minerals. I know some will disagree but that is what I am comfortable with.


bstuart me thinks you protest too much! You know you want those cute little goats. I wish I was closer to Emily, or maybe I don't since I would have waaay too many goats.
I am glad Emily dishes right back, ya need it

[bstuart29]

Originally Posted by thaiblue12

Oh also check around to find any local goat dairies. One up north from me sells wether bottle kids for very little, extra doelings and sometimes a doe in milk. They are all raised on CAE prevention, already disbudded and etc.

Do not let too much info overwhelm you. When I was learning about goats I was trying to take in all the info, not do something wrong or go broke trying to buy all the things they supposedly need according to each article you read and each person you get info from. You find that everyone has their own style they are comfortable with. What works for some might not work for you. What is available to them ie, goats, minerals and etc might not be able to you in your area. To me the 3 basic/musts are good food, good hay and good minerals. I know some will disagree but that is what I am comfortable with.


bstuart me thinks you protest too much! You know you want those cute little goats. I wish I was closer to Emily, or maybe I don't since I would have waaay too many goats.
I am glad Emily dishes right back, ya need it

Dang it Emily, see what ya started. Ya ya are probaly right I deserve what Emily throws back at me. Yep maybe I should just give up and get some of those cuties. Mostly likely I will in the not so distant future and when I do I'm sure I will be making a trip to Southern Missouri to get some I tease but I do trust Emily and knows she would only sell me or anyone healthy and fine animals