Doe sick again! Advice needed, please!

DixyDoodle · #1 08/29/08, 08:07 PM

Yep, the same doe yet again, the one suffering from the "polio" several weeks ago. We had her totally fixed up and looking fine and back to normal for a few weeks. And then I go into the yard and there she is, hunched over again and looking listless (and doing the stargazing bit again). Off she goes into quarantine again.

Again, we started with the B1 and probiotics. No change this time. By morning, she was down on her side and didn't seem to have the strength to get up. Lots of leg movement, like she's trying....or could it be discomfort? So I called the vet. She did a health check and is pretty much stumped. The only blood test results she found abnormal was blood calcium was a bit low (but she said barely) and her white cell was a bit high. But nothing at an alarming rate. Again, Tink's gums and eyes are fine, poop looks normal, temp is normal. The vet is thinking either a bacterial infection of unknown origin or some sort of neurological/genetic thing. Aside from that, she has no idea and I admit, there's not much to go on really. There are no real "obvious" signs that point to any one thing.

Does anyone have any clues to what this could be? Vet rates Tink's survival chances as "low" and says the calcium shot (plus I believe some sort of steriod, sorry I forgot what the other was) should pump her up a notch by tomorrow morning IF it does any good at all. She thinks if there is no improvement by then, Tinks will likely have to be put down.

dragonchick · #2 08/29/08, 08:14 PM

I know its a long shot but could it be tetanus? Even if UTD on CD/T they can still develop it?
Andi

DixyDoodle · #3 08/29/08, 08:18 PM

Just thinking here: is there any chance that maybe the first time around, it was also a calcium deficiency and that when we were giving her the probiotic yogurt that it got her calcium level up to a better level.....and then when we stopped the yogurt as she got better, that's why she went downhill again?

Although I think that "blood calcium" level is not the same as regular calcium.....ahhhh, not sure though!

Right now, she's getting water orally tubed in again, the yogurt and B1 again, plus OxyTet IM injection once a day as per the vet.

DixyDoodle · #4 08/29/08, 08:20 PM

dragonchick, that was one of my first thoughts, too! But yes, she was vaccinated and the vet did check for that and said her symptoms were not indicative of that.

dragonchick · #5 08/29/08, 08:33 PM

Definitely a head scratcher. I really hope she gets better for you.
Andi

needstoknowmore · #6 08/29/08, 08:58 PM

I will throw in a thought here. Sorry I didn't see your last post about this. So I don't know more about it than what you posted in this thread. So consider this me just thinking out loud. Calcium is a good place to start.
Treating with Vitamin B brought her around before. Depending on how you want to interpret the symptoms of Vit b dificiences, and not just the Polio, that could be one thing. Deficient in Vit A, is another possibilty. If you have some available I would give her some. 2 other things I would look at, are salt and phosphorus. And with the salt, not just that there is some (or way to much) available in the loose minerals or some form of block. But real salt. As far as the minerals go. I would also look at selenium. Are her toes together or do they seperated?

Going back and reading your post again. You said vet thinks it could be neurological? Could it be that (I can't spell worth a crap) menigel worm? Has your weather been wet??

That's my 1/2 cent worth. I do hope she makes it. If she doesn't I hope you will have a necropsy done to find the reason.

chma4 · #7 08/29/08, 09:15 PM

Deworm her. It cant hurt at this point, and meningeal worms cause neurologic symptoms.

needstoknowmore · #8 08/29/08, 11:59 PM

but you have to deworm with something that gets the worm. Not all wormers do. Best my little scattered brain at this time of night can remember, it has to be an ivermectrin product. but I could be wrong!!!

goatkid · #9 08/30/08, 01:03 AM

I've heard of some goats having a chronic problem with polio. I know my vet told me that I should give one or two B1 shots per week for up to a month aftet the symptoms subside. If your goat does not respond to the current meds you and the vet have given her, I agree with the vet that it's best to put her down.

DixyDoodle · #10 08/30/08, 02:02 PM

Well......she is still here! And actually on her feet today!

Last night, I was sure at having left her propped between the bales that she would be gone this morning, but no. Gave her more of the above things, plus some alfalfa mash as she is getting pretty thin (having not eaten for several days). She took right to that and is slurping it eagerly.

Having said that, whether the vet thinks this will make her worthy of keeping.....noting here that getting a vet over the long weekend would be difficult.

She has stood pretty much all day, a good thing! Still weak, though, as suspected. Again, I wonder, is it the yogurt and B1 that is fixing her up? Hmmmm........funny how she catches on after that.......will ask the vet also!

Quote:

Are her toes together or do they seperated?

What, you mean the toes of each foot or standing with feet close together.....I didn't not anything out of the ordinary.

Quote:

Deworm her. It cant hurt at this point, and meningeal worms cause neurologic symptoms.

Considering how weak she is right now, I don't think I am ready to chance that.

Will let you know how it goes with the vet. **fingers crossed**

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #11 08/30/08, 02:21 PM

If you think of this logically that both times she has now responded to the thiamin than there is something going on in her rumen (really not going on is the point). She makes all her own thiamin in a healthy rumen.

I would take her off all grain, I would look over my hay very very carefully, do everything from scartch with her to combat everything that could bring on acidosis. Alfalfa hay, alfafla pellets and grass hay. Start her rumen completely over and steal cud from one of your healthy does.

And paddleing which is what you saw her doing is a neuro sign.

I would keep up with the b vitamins, I would give her 12cc of any 300,000 unit pennicillin orally in case you are seeing a chronic form of listerosis, which would be the reason your vet gave you the steroid to use.

Then good nursing, her shots on time, subq fluids, hay, check her fecal....give your place a really good once over, hay racks, feed containers.

Also if you are in an area of drought then getting all this rain we have had 2 herds in our area loose does from grazing Johnson grass that is stressed. The same warnings you get about purchasing hay (sudan, Johnson, fescue) during stress of drought or just frosted goes for pastures also, high levels of purisic acid (sp) forms and kills rumen flora, shuts down their rumens. New hay? Any of this in your pastures? Urea in a protein lick or mineral block? Vicki

DixyDoodle · #12 08/31/08, 05:59 AM

Vicki, no, none of what you mentioned. Same old food, definitely no drought, it's been exeptionally wet actually. No cocci, no listeriosis (again re: vet). Vet didn't give me steroids, she just administered some (I thought so, anyhow, the vet #2 that came last night said NO....but then she didn't realize that vet #1 had also given calcium, she swears not, but she did, I was there!)

I was left with some electrolytes, and told to keep up with the OxyTet and B1. She is eating the alf pellet mash well and drinking a bit of water on her own now, instead of needing the syringe. Still unsteady on her feet though.

Both vets are still at a loss. Vet #2 said if she hadn't known about the first total recovery, she would have recommended putting her down, but thought giving her til over the long weekend was worth a shot just in case. She doesn't appear to be in pain, so......

**edited to add: Vicki, there was also some neurological issues last time around, right after the safeguard dosages, which I believe started off the whole thing. I was sure that was permanent, but at least that time, there was total recovery. I'm hoping for that this time also.

Vet #2 also said that sometimes a goat will "start to recover" just before going downhill for good, I hope this isn't the case with this doe.

waygr00vy · #13 08/31/08, 06:52 AM

I didn't think safeguard was strong enough to cause much of a problem...

prairiedog · #14 08/31/08, 07:17 AM

I knew someone that had a doe that did this every time she cycled. Had to go the whole thiamin shot thing every month

DixyDoodle · #15 09/01/08, 05:24 AM

Well, I was hoping to see a little bit of improvement as the days went on (she did seem to pick up on Saturday). While she was still eating out of my hand and drinking a bit of water, I don't think she was getting enough to keep her weight up sufficiently. She would seem to eat and then get tired, so very hard to get enough food in her.

Her weight really went downhill, so skinny. My main concern though, was her lack of any improvement aside from being able to stand. It was pretty obvious there was some sort of neurological issue. I had been hoping she would become more coordinated.

We called the vet out again yesterday to get her assessed once more. Dh and I were in agreement that we had no other options left and the improvement had seemed to be at a standstill, and in particular the neuro signs showed no improvement this time around. Vet came and agreed with this........we decided to have her put down to save her from any suffering.

We never did find out exactly what it was. Only that the vet didn't suspect anything contagious (thank God) and nothing in her blood tests showed anything specific or even overly abnormal. The only thing she suspects is maybe a blood clot (from being banged up from a disagreement with another goat maybe or a fall) or some sort of tumour (although again, there were not physical signs of that). The vet took her body back with her to the Kemptville Ag college to run an exam. All three vets are curious and at a loss as to what actually happened to her. Should know if they find anything within two weeks.

nehimama · #16 09/01/08, 06:30 AM

I'm so sorry she lost her battle.

NeHi

Jyllie63 · #17 09/01/08, 06:36 AM

I'm so sorry!

moonspinner · #18 09/01/08, 07:44 AM

So very very sorry. Sounds like you tried everything. Do let us know the necropsy results. Will be very interested to see what turns up.

Minelson · #19 09/01/08, 08:26 AM

Oh I'm so sorry

You tried everything and made the right decision for her. Hugs to you..she has no pain and is at peace now.

Shazza · #20 09/01/08, 08:37 AM

I am so sorry for your loss. Just a question about the mystery illness...was she CAE negative? Although here dont know about in US the name has changed to CRV..Caprine Retro Virus.