lactation curve question

[MamaDee]

I know I've heard that you should milk a goat for 10 months to keep their lactation going longer after future kiddings. Does this just apply to first fresheners? Does it really matter for a doe, say, 8 years old? And....does once a day milking count?

We have an 8 year old Kinder doe who isn't giving squat anymore in the evening and are considering going to once a day for her. We'll wait to see if cooler weather helps her out, but would like to cut her down to just mornings. She's going to be bred in the next few weeks anyway.

Also, will going down to once a day milkings before the 10 months is up hurt a first fresheners future lactations?

Dee

[Mrs. Jo]

Going once a day is fine for your kinder. The only goats I really work to keep in milk for ten months are the ff's, after that they fit in my schedule. My kinders might nurse a kid for six months and then be milked for 3 or 4, or I might bottle the kids, milk them for 8 or nine, dry them up and breed again. Once the heavy milking period is over, I switch to once a day. This does make them dry up faster, but I enjoy not having to do two hours of milking a day for most of the year.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Can you just sweat it out until after she is bred and then dry her up? You don't want aged does dry too much of the year and certainly not before they are bred, it gets really hard to breed them. Vicki

[6e]

Why do you want to push FF's to milk for 10 months out of the year? I have a FF that isn't producing hardly anything and I was going to go ahead and dry her off just because she isn't hardly worth the trouble for the amount of milk I get.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

It has nothing to do with pushing them. You milk or you leave.

Imagine that you only lived off the list of things in your signature that you do..I get $3 a dozen for eggs, guess how many hens stay who do not give me an egg everyday or at least every other day? It's the same with goats, but breeding a better goat and feeding it correctly you get as much milk as they are genetically capable of giving. It's not burning them out or pushing them, they are mor than capable of doing it. Sure milk amounts right now in the heat are dismal, we had more than 2 weeks of triple digits followed by a huge storm and then a hurricane and rain for 2 weeks, add our humidity and it might just as well rain everyday. Not very condusive for milking but Tot is still plugging away at 5 pounds as a 17 month old first freshener who kidded in April at 13 months. She has a family line of really good milkers, and will be bred to a buck whose dam is top 10 in milk on test from a herd with 8 of the top 10 catagories for fat, protien and volume.

But yes I agree, if she is milking poorly it isn't worth the time, just make sure you are not contributing to her milking poorly, her diet, her water, her peace in the herd, her health, and biggy is that she is milked twice a day. Vicki

[BlueHeronFarm]

I think the original premise is another one of those goat old wive's tales.

We had heard the same thing, but have been reassured by a couple people who have had goats for a LONG time that it is not true.

We dried off three FFs that were not producing well enough for us and rebred them last month. Their udder capacity generally grows until they are 3 - so we hope to have much better output next year - if not, we'll sell them as family milkers, but they weren't worth the effort for us this year.

[6e]

So, even if I dry off the FF, shouldn't she do better next year as a general rule? I didn't figure that I would have to milk her all year to make her produce more next year? That's what I don't understand. Sorry. I don't get the connection between milking her longer and her producing more milk next year as opposed to drying her up and her not making much next year?

[southerngurl]

My understanding is the length of the first lactation "sets" the length of later lactations. If an FF is dried up 5 months into lactation, they tend to try and dry up next lactation at about 5 months, will decrease in production.

[BlueHeronFarm]

6e, Ashley summed up the idea behind the OP. That lactation length, not quantity per milking, is set by the 1st lactation.

But again - I think it's not actually true.

But yes, a lot of goats will increase quantity from year 1 to 2 and even 2 to 3 many times.

[6e]

Well, I have a FF that I was going to go ahead and dry up because she's only milking about 2 or 3 inches in the bottom of the bucket at each milking, but she's only been milking for about 4 months. But I'll tell you, for the amount she eats, she's not hardly worth the trouble. Hmmm, not sure what I want to do.

[DQ]

I question the idea that the first lactation "sets" the milking also. If that were true in animals in general what would happen to all those wild animals or meat animals expected to just raise their own who lost their first baby? which is very common in wild animals. that would doom future offspring. It just doesn't make sense to me but my mind can be changed with something other than anecdotal or small scale evidence. I know dairy animals are about as far from wild as you can get but the same basics hormonal influences on lactation are there in all mammals. I just don't see what mechanism could possibly be behind the first lactation length affecting subsequent ones.

[BlueHeronFarm]

Originally Posted by 6e

Well, I have a FF that I was going to go ahead and dry up because she's only milking about 2 or 3 inches in the bottom of the bucket at each milking, but she's only been milking for about 4 months. But I'll tell you, for the amount she eats, she's not hardly worth the trouble. Hmmm, not sure what I want to do.

We had the same issue with three of ours. We dried em up and put em in with the buck. I highly recommend it.

[6e]

Originally Posted by BlueHeronFarm

We had the same issue with three of ours. We dried em up and put em in with the buck. I highly recommend it.

Don't think she'll dry up after 4 months next year cause I'm drying her up this year after only 4 months? I've actually never heard of that. I thought it was all genetics and the supply and demand thing. You demand it and they'll supply it, or at least for as long as they can. But I didn't think that just because I dry her up at 4 months this year she'll automatically dry up at 4 months next year. Well, it's only 1 doe. I'll experiement. LOL We'll see if she dries up early next year.

[BlueHeronFarm]

Yeah-- we'll have to resurrect this thread in 9 months.
-- but I really don't think they will suddenly dry off after four months next time.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

We had heard the same thing, but have been reassured by a couple people who have had goats for a LONG time that it is not true.
....................

Long time breeders who sell milk for a living? I do think that it ruins their will to milk, sure any goat can milk for 4 or 5 months, but to get long steady lactations for 10 months it's about you being consistant also. No once a day milking, no missing milkings, adequate nutrition and not getting lazy and not milking them even if it is just 4 pounds once summer hits. Extended dry periods will eventually bring on udder problems you would never have had, had she milked through her pregnancy and only had a 45 to 50 days dry period.

And nope it's probably not written anywhere except in the milkroom of old dairymen.

But at least you are all milking young first fresheners, most don't even get any milk from their does until they are nearly two. Vicki

[steff bugielski]

I followed this thinking last year. I had a FF with a small amount of milk. I kept milking her just so she would milk better, longer next year. But by 5 months it was a total waste of time. I dried her up. This year she freshen in March and she is giving me 9lbs a day, with a beautiful udder.
My bottom line is if she is not giving enough milk to pay for her food then she is going to be dried up so I can stop pouring money into her. if next year she does not milk well she leaves.

[6e]

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

We had heard the same thing, but have been reassured by a couple people who have had goats for a LONG time that it is not true.
....................

Long time breeders who sell milk for a living? I do think that it ruins their will to milk, sure any goat can milk for 4 or 5 months, but to get long steady lactations for 10 months it's about you being consistant also. No once a day milking, no missing milkings, adequate nutrition and not getting lazy and not milking them even if it is just 4 pounds once summer hits. Extended lactaions will eventually bring on udder problems you would never have had, had she milked through her pregnancy and only had a 45 to 50 days dry period.

And nope it's probably not written anywhere except in the milkroom of old dairymen.

But at least you are all milking young first fresheners, most don't even get any milk from their does until they are nearly two. Vicki

Our FF that we've been milking this year had adequate nutrition, never missed a milking and was always milked religiously at 8 and 8 every single day. But, she has still never milked more than a couple of inches in the bottom of the bucket. She came to us pregnant, very small for a yearling and thin. We've dumped a ton of feed into her and while she has grown and almost caught up with the big girls and is no longer thin, she still only milks a couple of inches. I don't think she was physically in good enough health to be pregnant last year. She was still a growing baby and then to put all that energy into growing another baby just took a lot out of her and she just didn't have the capacity to milk a lot.

Right now we are in the process of taking her down to once a day and then we'll start drying her off and we'll wait till next year. We'll experiment a bit and see if she dries off early next year. I'll let you know how she does next fall.