Nightly Bloat?

thaiblue12 · #1 08/10/08, 03:52 PM

It has rained here for the past couple of days. Alot of rain one night, I was wading to the barn. It has not rained here for most of the summer.
Since then one goat kid, who is 2 months old seems to be bloated in the evening only. He has access to hay just like the others, but maybe he is not eating it. I have them in a barn with pen at night and kept them in there till it had dried up more and then I let them out to graze. But the past two nights he was crying and in pain. So I brought him in and gave him oil and massaged him till he started burping. My hand cramped! I have also forced him to eat baking soda which he does not like at all. He was peeing and pooping just fine during this pain/crying.
His stomach feels hard but it is not very wide/expanded. Is this bloat or something else? Is there anything I can do for him? Can/should I give a shot of CD&T Anti-toxin? They only sell the tiny bottles of it for horses, is that ok to use? If so what dose? He weighs around 15 pounds and is a Nigie banded boy.
Thanks.

DQ · #2 08/10/08, 05:53 PM

I think you are looking for the clostridum antoxin not the tetanus antitoxin. cd-t is a vaccine. generally a bloated goat will have an over expanded rumen. so his tummy would be big. probably moreso on one side if it is bloat. a normal rumen feels doughy as in playdough that slowly fills back in when pushed. a bloated rumen is full of gas and would feel more like and overfull balloon. if he is crying in pain and it is intermintent it will be very difficult to diagnose. if it was overeating disease he would be dead already imo. describe his crying more. is he looking around and at you? or is he standing in a corner oblivious to the world with his head down and crying? the latter would indicate pain. the former would indicate worry over something else.

thaiblue12 · #3 08/10/08, 07:13 PM

He cries while laying down. His stomach does feel hard but I feel a pocket of maybe air at times? It is not expanded that it sticks out that far. He cries at night and grinds his teeth. When I pick him up and have his stomach press up against my arm he cries more. No he is not crying in a corner alone. He will lay down and cry but as soon as something like a dog or a noise happens he is very alert and gets right up.
He has gotten the regular CD&Toxiod shots, but I thought there was one for bloat/entero which was the Anti-toxin. I can only find that for equine in a little small glass bottle.
He has been stuck with his sister in a stall with hay, water and baking soda and he is complaining loudly about that. But I wanted to force him to eat hay and not graze today.

DQ · #4 08/10/08, 08:17 PM

there is an antitoxin for entero and that can follow bloat. I'm not sure honestly what, if anything you should do. if you are absolutley convinced that he is crying in pain and not because he misses his mommy or isn't where he wants to be or something of that nature, I would check his temp to rule out an infection, check his eyelids to rule out anemia and just keep an eye on him.

Sweet Goats · #5 08/11/08, 10:45 AM

I would keep doping the baking soda. I make balls out of it and i shove them in the mouth and force them to take them, (hold their mouth shut for a few seconds) now they will loose part of it because they will spit it out after you let go of their mouth. I would keep doing that, also offer him some good fresh straw for feed along with the hay. Straw sooths the tummy but it is the roughage that they need.
If he is still not getting better go get some Thera Bloat. That is all that saved my big 250# buck last year.

fishhead · #6 08/11/08, 12:03 PM

Drought followed by rain can give a goat bloat from eating too much of the lush waterfilled grass. I would keep him indoors in the morning with nothing but hay until you're sure that he's eaten a bunch. Then let him out to browse. That way he won't pig out on the grass or browse. Just until he gets used to the lush grass.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #7 08/11/08, 01:00 PM

At only 2 months old he only has a barely working rumen.

Is he weaned?
What exactly is he eating?
You expect ruminants to have big rumens full of browse in the evening after being out all day, or even stuck in the barn eating hay, which they then lay down and ruminante and are thinner looking in the morning. But a 2 month old is going to look really pot bellied from this, not hard.

I would bet his rumen isn't functioning and you need to steal some cud from an adult and give it to him. I just slurry it in a blender with the smallest amount of water and then tube the water. Lots of probiotics, lots of good grass or alfalfa hay he will eat. Using oil smoothers the bacteria in his gut, it also smoother bloat but you aren't dealing with bloat.

The little vials you are talking about are tetanus antitoxin nor the C&D part which you can get form the vet or order online. IF this was entero and you needed the toxin he would be dead like what was said above.

I would give him subq lacated ringers and get him hydrated, then using probiotics put him back on the bottle, lots of good hay, walking him out in the browse.

With no rain and then lots of rain, like we just went through you really also have to think parasties. I am running fecals weekly right now to make sure it doesn't get ahead of me.

You might also want to simply use an oral sulfa, not only for cocci, which kills lots of weaned kids this time of year but also helps with bacteria which could also be part of his tummy problems, and it doesn't hurt.

Be very careful to not overdo the dry baking soda orally it can really screw with his electrolytes, although I would offer him a syringe full diluted in water every couple of hours with his probiotics.

You can tell if his rumen is failing if his temp lowers under 102. Vicki

thaiblue12 · #8 08/11/08, 04:11 PM

I will have to wait for the evening to take his temp since it is pretty hot out and I want to get an acurate reading.
He is one of the half pygmy-half nigie kids so I let his mom raise him, so he is still nursing, he eats alfalfa pellets, grazes, gets some leaves and branches as well, there is grass hay he could care less about.
I am going to steal cud but I am not using my fingers! I have been accidentally bitten by a baby goat recently and I swear those teeth in the back are like razors.
I have Corid but nowhere on there do I see that it has sulfa.
One or two good rains brings out parasites? We are fairly free of parasites here thankfully.

Sweet Goats I used a bloat med on him that first night and it did nothing. So I have no idea what is bothering him. But he is making me nuts.

Well I am off to get a cud donation, without giving any skin or blood, I hope.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #9 08/11/08, 04:41 PM

I would milk mom and make sure her milk is ok, and that she is not weaning him and what you are seeing is hunger. Or that she has mastitis.

"I have Corid but nowhere on there do I see that it has sulfa." Corid is Amprolium, Sulfa's are Albon, Sulmet, Dimethox etc...

A fecal would probably reveal the problem so you don't have to medicate him...or you do and you can choose a drug rather than use the treat and see method.

Do you have any banamine, it is one of the first things I do on an off kid, that and bo-se.

Something new we have been using is Diarsynal (I alway slaughter that) we get it from the vet, same tube like thing like Probios, it coats the gut. Vicki

thaiblue12 · #10 08/11/08, 05:23 PM

You forgot to mention how gross and hard it is to get cud. I am writing a new thread about that, icky!
He has a sister and she is doing fine and mom is a bit wild (which is why she is leaving next month) so I will wait till my husband gets home and we can wrestle her to check her milk. Her bag is still pretty large and I do see the kids with milky mouths but I will do the hands on check.
I have some of his poop and I will taken it in to the vet on my way to town a bit later.
He got some electrolytes, probios and we will try round two of the cud later.