Health guarantees

[6e]

How many of you offer health guarantees on your goats? What kind of guarantee? Do you get offended if people insist on a guarantee? Would you buy from someone that didn't offer a written guarantee of health? Especially in regards to CL?

[jordan]

I reality, the most that anyone could really offer is that the animal is guaranteed healthy and free of genetic defects when it leaves the farm. There are many variables after an animal is out of the breeders hands such as shipping stress, changes in diet and enviorment... these can knock a goat on it's rear pretty quick.

I would NOT buy from anyone who can't/won't produce whole herd negative test results for CAE and Johnes (or in your case, CL) and who doesn't bottle feed pasturized milk. It is amazing to me when I hear of breeders who bottle feed, but don't paturize. It has always struck me as a little deceptive since most buyers would assume that if you bottle feed it is done as a preventative.

Your best option, or the person buying from you, is to visit the farm if at all possible and evaluate the general appearance of the animals there and the conditions they live in. And of course, SEE the test results!

[thatcompchick]

I totally agree on the testing -

As for guarantees - I really like fiasco farms contract, and have edited it to suit my needs - basically, I can guarantee that my herd is tested, and that the animal will have a health certificate (buyer's expense) upon leaving the farm but once off the farm, I cannot control what it is exposed to, so then becomes 'as is'.

Health certificates are often overlooked - a quick vet review can usually catch things like congestion in the lungs, pink eye, diarrhea, cocci, etc.

Andrea
www.arare-breed.net
www.faintinggoat.net

[6e]

Well, let's push it a little farther, if someone buys goat from you and by some chance they test the goat a couple of days later and it comes back positive for whatever...............would you take the goat back? Offer their money back?

We've been debating what sort of guarantee to offer, how long to guarantee them, and what to guarantee them for. We've never had any farm in KS offer us a health guarantee, or any guarantee for that matter, but it was always an understanding that in good faith they were not trying to push off a nasty goat. Well, those times are changing as people get more and more dishonest. So, now we're having to think about these things.

[thatcompchick]

Well, first, testing for what? Since my goats leave at 12 weeks old - there is no viable testing for Johnes, Cl at that point - just CAE. Most of the health certs are accompanied by tb/brucellosis testing - so I would know that by now.

An adult animal sold would go with recent cl/cae/johnes test results. For sale adults are tested before selling. Adults that have been sold are over 2 years old, so they would have a history of approximately 4 negative tests.

If they came up with a different result, I'd go back to the lab on that, for sure.

I am not going to say it's not completely impossible, but I'd sure be confused if it did, probably refund their money under the condition that the diagnosis was either certified by their vet and the lab, I would then take the animal up to the lab (MD) and have full diagnostics run upon necroscopy and have a long talk with WADDL!

Andrea

[copperpennykids]

That's why you would do all of your testing prior to the goat leaving your premises. It is the only way that the breeder can control what the goat has been exposed to etc.

Now there are several breeders that "say" they haven't had CAE in years, but the trusting soul takes the goat home and tests 1-2 weeks later and it is positive. Had the poor buyer done a little bit more checking, they would have discovered that this breeder has a reputation for doing this.

In case you think the pre-test before picking up the animal would have helped these folks, not necessarily, as the "breeder" could pull blood from a known negative animal and have it sent in under the For Sale animal's name. WaaLaa - Negative at breeders house!

Which brings me back to telling folks to buy from a reputable breeder (referrals are great!) that is CAE and CL negative (and Johne's for folks with this problem). We have always done much better with breeders with trust than just big names. Oh, and don't be afraid to pay a little more for these animals. The care, the testing, the quarantine when purchasing animals for themselves all costs time and money. Remember the cost of the animal is just the beginning of the cost of the animal - In other words, it costs the same to feed and care for a mediocre/diseased animal as it does for the better animal, and the better animal will recoup your costs much more quickly than the "bargain" goat. My not so humble opinion.

Back to the original question: a contract that states that all testing will be done prior to the animal leaving your property protects both parties. If something weird comes up or you feel in some way responsible, then you can OFFER to replace or refund, but the contract protects you from unscrupulous/whiney/everything is always someone else's fault buyers as well. Anyway , you just guarantee them healthy and free of disease when they leave your farm. Judgement call on your part after that, but don't guarantee anything.

Camille
P.S. CAE tests on young stock are inconclusive up to 6 months of age. From 6-12 months of age WADDL says it is still a judgement call on the validity of the test.