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  #1  
Old 07/31/08, 10:44 PM
 
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Cydectin - oral drench vs. pour-on formula

For those of you that use the pour-on orally, is there a reason you didn't choose the oral sheep drench? I'm trying to learn more about this de-wormer.

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  #2  
Old 07/31/08, 11:33 PM
 
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Sheep drench would require 2.5 times label dose, where as pour-on cattle orally is label dose.

Quote:
CYDECTIN Oral Drench for Sheep, when administered at the recommended dose level of 0.2 mg moxidectin/2.2 lb (0.2 mg/kg) body weight, is effective in the treatment and control of adult and larval (L4) stages of the following internal parasites of sheep
Quote:
CYDECTIN (cattle) Pour-On when applied at the recommended dose level of 0.5 mg/2.2 lb (0.5 mg/kg) body weight is effective in the treatment and control of the following internal [adult and fourth-stage larvae (L4)] and external parasites of cattle:
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  #3  
Old 08/01/08, 07:32 AM
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Kathy
 
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Yes sheep drench is weaker and you have to use more of it, just like Tennessee said. Cheaper in the long run to get the other.

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  #4  
Old 08/01/08, 01:59 PM
 
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Hmmm, ok.

When I look at Jeffers' the sheep drench's label dose is 1ml per 11 pounds = 0.09 while the cattle pour-on is 5ml per 110 pounds = 0.045 confirming that the drench is weaker than the pour-on (it takes more drench do get the same ratio per pound of meds. that the pour-on gives you). The sheep drench is $62.75/1000ml = $0.06275/ml but you have to use twice as much as the pour-on, so double this for comparison = $0.1255. The pour-on is $92.05/1000ml = $0.09205/ml. So to get the same concentration it is about 30% cheaper to buy the pour-on.

At least I know your reasoning now.

But for me I'm struggling with the pour-on formula being safe for internal use and possibly being too high a dose for internal use even if it was safe. I have more research to do!

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  #5  
Old 08/01/08, 11:01 PM
 
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I think you have to consider that it's a pour-on for cattle, not goats. There is a difference in cattle and goat hide, so even if you are pouring it on, the dosage would be greater. Also, goats metabolize everything faster than cattle or horses, which is why the dosages are always bigger. And finally, I think there have not been many tests done on goats, which is why there is never a goat dosage on the bottles.

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  #6  
Old 08/02/08, 12:54 AM
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I have always wondered why people don't just use the Cydectin injectible??
I'm with Hoofinitnorth in that (regardless of all those who have used it) I just can't see using a pour on orally. The stuff is like kerosene.

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  #7  
Old 08/02/08, 06:30 AM
 
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I don't mean to hijack but I was wondering if anyone had used the cattle version on sheep? I have the pour on for my goats and recently got sheep -- with the costs of dewormers I was wondering if I could use the pour on on the sheep too?? And what the dosage would be. Right now I only have 3 goats so I have a lot of dewormer....

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  #8  
Old 08/02/08, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan View Post
I have always wondered why people don't just use the Cydectin injectible??
I'm with Hoofinitnorth in that (regardless of all those who have used it) I just can't see using a pour on orally. The stuff is like kerosene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lada View Post
I think you have to consider that it's a pour-on for cattle, not goats. There is a difference in cattle and goat hide, so even if you are pouring it on, the dosage would be greater. Also, goats metabolize everything faster than cattle or horses, which is why the dosages are always bigger. And finally, I think there have not been many tests done on goats, which is why there is never a goat dosage on the bottles.

I don't know if the injectible is ok for goats but just for me if I can put in the mouth verses sticking the animal with a needle I will. We raise meat goats and every time you give a animal a shot it leaves a small amount of scar tissue that has to be cut away from prime cuts like a ham or sholder roast so we try to avoid shots. (This info came from a vet and a butcher.)

We use a drench gun and can set it for doses of 1 to 5 cc's. Also a goats hide is much thinner than a cows hide and I have been told that it would be absorbed too fast. While is does smell like kerosene the goats don't seem to mind it when followed with a animal cracker.
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  #9  
Old 08/02/08, 07:04 AM
 
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LOL, that is because it IS kerosene. Dh, who had many chemistry courses in college, took one wiff of cydectin pour on for cattle and said, "the carrier in this product is kersoene. There is no way I am putting kerosene down the throats of our goats."

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  #10  
Old 08/02/08, 07:36 AM
 
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The reason they developed the drench was to have a wormer that was consistent with the Aqueous nature of the Rumen. The Pour on is supposed to be rain resistant. Why I would put a water resistant mixture into the rumen of a goat or a sheep and expect it to perform in the water environment is beyond my comprehension.

I'll stick with the drench and if it gets to where I can't afford to use it I'll just raise fewer goats and sheep.

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  #11  
Old 08/02/08, 08:02 AM
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So what drench do you use?

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  #12  
Old 08/02/08, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockytopsis View Post
I don't know if the injectible is ok for goats.
It is. You use injectable orally at 2x label dose.
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  #13  
Old 08/02/08, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goatsareus View Post
LOL, that is because it IS kerosene. Dh, who had many chemistry courses in college, took one wiff of cydectin pour on for cattle and said, "the carrier in this product is kersoene. There is no way I am putting kerosene down the throats of our goats."
I had read an article that the main ingredient in pour on's is the same as kerosene or lighter fluid. No thanks.
I have used the injectible in the past (before I went over to the dark side and started using herbals) and it was very effective.
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  #14  
Old 08/02/08, 06:09 PM
 
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I don't have any issues using it orally.

But that did remind me of last year when dh put some on a big steer, then had to use the shock stick on it and it set his back on fire. The calf didn't seem to notice, but it burned off it's hair all the way down it's back.

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  #15  
Old 08/02/08, 07:45 PM
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I was really leary at first also, ran an informal study of those using it and went to a University to see the milking herd for my own two eyes, even picked up some fresh poop for myself to run a fecal on later. There isn't anybody more careful about my stock than me, mine feed me and them. Also the injectable, and the sheep Cydectin were not the first products out, the cattle pouron was.

I have used it for several years now, it works on fecal. Not only does it work but most see a residual effect we do not see in other products.

The carrier is a moot point when you only have to use it 3 times a year compared to drugs at higher and higher dosages to do a poorer job.

We know that poured on or injected it speeds through the system faster, we 'hear' without proof the poured on causing neuro problems etc. What we KNOW is that poured on or injected, products simply not used orally build resistance faster because they aren't in the system as long to do as good a job as oral. I do not use it in preruminanting babies.

To many friends of mine from club have used it at least 5 years longer than I have with no problems, and best no resistance. Now overuse and crazy dosages and pouring it on have made resistance in gals herds who are now using levamisole. What they will use in a couple of years is anyones guess.

Learn to fecal, do you really even have worm problems up in your area? If so are they HC that Cydectin was made to target? If not of course I would not use it. Here even in our mild winters there is no need to use cydectin after fall, when the does are dry, we simply don't have problems with HC. When you learn to fecal and really use it as a tool in your herd, you simply won't care what others think, do or say, it's moot for your herd. vicki

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