VERY long~ if you can read through it~ help please! Thanks!

[Cheryl aka JM]

I’ve made a few bad choices I’m trying to make “right” and I’m not sure where to go from this point. If you have the patience to read the story~ I’d appreciate a little advice please.

So~ I moved to this property last September and wanted goats all along (25 acre). Pastures where not properly fenced~ had barbed wire. Been working on laying field fence over the barbed wire~ but only one pasture is done and we keep turkeys and geese in it. Another pasture is almost done (time seems to be our real issue) but is not quite there yet. I NEED at least one other person to help with the fencing and most times I’m here working alone~ and we are amateurs~ usually looking like the three stooges out there with a roll of fence and a fence stretcher…………….

So…………..

DUMB MISTAKE~ followed by comedy of tragedies………..

I really wanted goats. A friend took me to a barn sale last weekend…………..and I was tempted so bid on this cute little baby miniature goat……….really cute little thing. Don’t know why I did it…..but I did. I was thinking the LGD pup I bought knows goats and I’ve got another LGD pup coming in a week or two…..I need a goat to keep them knowing what’s what…..and it was little, and a mini…..it would never get too big for me to handle……….. Later in the sale after my friend badgered and badgered me that I could not just buy ONE goat it would be miserable………..I bid on and won a two year old “Bred” mini doe. Okay…..I’m good. I have the bred doe and the baby. WAY more than I should have done on impulse~ but done.

THEN

My friend (who has apologized repeatedly and promised to never do this again!) wanted me to bid on the buck that had bred the doe I bought. NO! I DO NOT NEED A BUCK! I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT I’M DOING! I CAN GET A BUCK LATER!!!!!! While I was still distracted by thoughts of that buck~ thank God she didn’t buy it! She raised her hand and I realized she was bidding on…………SOMETHING!........... I looked~ it was the other mini doe bred by that buck. And she WON HER! I hollered “WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!! YOU don’t have ANY PLACE to keep a goat!!!”………………

So~ I insisted on paying for that doe to~ NO WAY I was going to have a goat that belonged to my friend on my property when I still wasn’t sure I was going to let the goats live on my property or if I’d made a horrible mistake…………which I was already feeling. So I bought all three goats~ the two bred mini does and the baby mini…………..

I KNEW I’d made a mistake. The two older does felt okay~ but the baby~ if I had put my hands on her to start with I never would have bought her. She had the body feel of an animal in bad shape. I don’t know how to describe it. You know how you can sometimes feel an animal~ the belly is too full so you know it’s wormy~ the muscles are too soft so you just know it’s already run down a LOT?

This was a Saturday~So first thing I called my neighbor who has what looked to me like NICE Boer goats. He said to worm them and not worry. I explained my intent to test for CL and CAE before letting them in the intended goat pasture. (I put them in with the turkeys and geese in there secure if a bit over used pasture area). He said not to worry~ if “the bad diseases are present they will die within 48 hours”.

So~ I’m nervous~ realizing I did STUPID buying at a sale barn~ kind of mad about having more goats than I bought…………..but I put them in with the turkeys and geese and start harassing my family to make time to help me finish the fencing on one of the two planned eventual goat pastures…………….

Monday morning first thing I took the goats to the vet. I wanted CL and CAE testing~ I asked about Jonnes too. The vet almost laughed at me. He said it was unneeded~ that if the goats got sick I should worry then. That these were un-needed tests. I was a bit shocked but he WAS the vet~ the one recommended by pretty much everyone in the county that I had spoken with………………. He agreed that the baby felt “Bad” was very wormy~ I Had wormed them Sunday evening so all he did was give them antibiotic shots to be sure they were okay and sent them home……….

Wednesday the baby looked so bad I separated her
Thursday she was dead~ I assumed it was an overload of worms and being in bad shape before I even bought her…………

Same day (Thursay) the neighbor who I thought knew a LOT about goats because he had a Boer Herd told me he was sending his herd to the meat market and did I want the one little doe they had made a pet. Free of charge~ 100% boer doe about 4 months old. Okay. So she came over and moved into the Turkey pen with the two mini does I got at the sale barn………….

Friday~ One of the turkeys looked bad. I separated him~ but he he died this evening (5 month old royal palm tom who looked fine earlier this week). I don’t know why. The other turkeys all look fine…………….

I’m worried. I have the two sale barn “Bred mini” does in that pen~ the one full blood boer doe (about 4 months old) in that pen. I wanted to check for CA, CLE and Jonnes before putting those goats into the pasture I mean to be FOR GOATS (Hopefully ready for goats any time now) ~ but the vet doesn’t see those diseases as an issue and neither do my close nieghbors…..

The one neighbor who I thought knew what he was doing (who gave me the young boer doe) and another neighbor who I know just got his goats and is using the same vet as I am are in close proximity~ so I know if he is telling me not to bother with testing he is telling them the same thing…………

What do I do now?
Try to find a vet that will test?
How much should I expect to spend for testing?
Did they give something to the turkey that got sick or was it stress from fighting with the other maturing Toms?
I want to finish the pasture and put my new two mini’s and one boer does’ in it…………..but I’m afraid to let them into the pasture I want as definite goat housing later.
If I do find a way to test my girls and destroy them or keep them as needed……….what about my neighbors keeping goats I KNOW are not being tested clean…..will that effect me?

I could use a little advice here?
All three goats out there now LOOK fine~ two of them have been to a vet……………….
But all they got was antibiotic shots~
And one baby died, one turkey got sick and died right after that, and I’m reasonably sure NO ONE in the immediate area has tested for CA, CLE or :Jonnes or my vet would not have thought it such an odd request!

[Jcran]

Take a deep breath. Relax. What is past is done. Don't ask permission to test, just schedule a vet to come out and do it for CAE and CL at least. Feed the goats. Enjoy the goats. Make sure you don't get any other goats until you get these 3 tested. We test 2x a year and I am proud to say that I learned to pull blood and it is easy peasy lemon squeezy. Make sure you have a good shelter for your goats. Get that other pasture or at least a good pen fenced in well.

[Togg Lovers]

I would just tell the vet that even though it may not be necessary that you want the tests done anyway out of curiosity. I don't see why he wouldn't do it if you are willing to pay for it. If not then I would find a vet who will. I wouldn't take the chance of contaminating a clean pasture.

[JKB07]

Your right, no one in our area tests, they think its a waist of time and money, which it is not. What sale barn did you go to? What vet are you using, and where in N. AL are you located?


JKB

[dragonchick]

I would pull blood myself and send it in. This way you bypass the vet in question. A good vet should never try to talk you out of a blood test to find out if you have a disease.

I am sorry to hear about the baby. It sounds like the sellers were just trying to make a quick buck.

Worm those that are left, get cocci prevention started, minerals, Pro-bios and listen to Vicki. Her computer side manner is the pitts but she really does know her stuff.

I won't berate you for buying at the sale barn or buying by your emotions. You were there to give those goats a home for a reason, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. Make the best of the situation and provide your new goat family the very best you can.
Andi

[RiverPines]

Unless I had goats for dairy or selling, I don't test. No reason to.
I have meat goats for just our own freezer. They are all healthy and fine.

So, if your not selling or milking, and they seem fine, why test?
If you want to test then find someone who will.

Meanwhile the bird didn't get anything from a goat. But it could of been stepped on, or kicked. Goats can very easily accidentally and sometimes, on purpose kill birds, even turkeys and geese. They have hooves that cause damage especially if they step or kick just the right spot on a bird.

I hope you have shelter for those goats!! I didnt notice mention of any.

Personally, I would never buy an animal from a sale barn.
I prefer farm to farm with plenty of time to check things out.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Thanks so far~
The sale barn was "noahs ark" Held every 3rd Saturday in Cullman
The vet was "Lee's animal hospital" also in Cullman.

I'm actually in Falkville~ a bit closer to Eva than Falkville actually~ do you have a better vet for me to see? Lee's has been the most experienced and best vet I've found for the variety of other animals I have (I do have a small zoo here!). I was pretty shocked when they did not seem to know what or why I wanted CL or CAE testing~ maybe because I was seeing an associate and not Dr. Lee himself?

Being in North Alabama too (where?)~ do you have a better goat vet for me to see?

[JKB07]

im farther north of you, north of Huntsville. But, I do know Dr. Lee. Call tomorrow and ask to talk to him, and tell him you want it done asap. Noahs Ark is one of the better sale, so maybe your does are healthy as can be. If you were colser to me I could send you to see some really good vets, but Dr. lee should be just fine. Like I said, people around here dont do any teasing, I bet most dont even know what CL and CAE is. I think you will do just fine!


JKB

[thaiblue12]

I have not heard of any disease a goat and pass to poultry. However my goats will sometimes step on a chicken that gets under foot, or hit a chicken that decides it wants to go for a ride. Maybe they ran over your turkey? Or it was just an odd coincidence.
I would give CD&T shots. It is 2 cc/ml you can get it at the feed store. I use a 20 gauge needle that is only 1/2 and inch long. You do it sub-q. You tent the skin at the base of the neck and once you stick the needle in draw back a bit to make you are not in a vein. First few pokes feel icky but since you are now good at loping off roo heads giving shots should be easy.
What does your vet charge for the visit and the exam? Add another $15 per test and that is a ballpark of what you can expect.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Thanks so much everyone~ for the responses and PMs. I feel better this morning. I was really worried I had diseased my healthy Turkeys by bringing home impulse purchased goats. The turkeys have been fighting a lot~ the toms are maturing and fussing at each other so I suspect the Tom that died just took the bad end of a beating by 5 other toms and possibly a head butt or two by a goat. The day he started looking bad I was sending roosters to freezer camp and not watching closely so I don't know, Just in case I'm out today to buy wormer for the Turkeys (if the goats have worms~ the turkeys may be tasting the new brown pellets in thier pen....so......) I'll get some of the CD&T and a mineral block while I'm out too. I'm feeding them bagged goat feed right now as I don't really think there is enough green in that pasture right now but they don't seem to be eating much of it. I suspect they eat some of the turkey food though! They do have shelter in the turkey house with the turkeys~ though I don't see them use it much. I'll call the vet Monday and ask for Dr Lee himself. I should have asked for him right away when the associate put me off.......but I'm not always the most confident of people!

Thanks so much everyone!

[Minelson]

Just a thought...I know chicken food is not good at all for goats, so I keep mine where the goats can't get at it. I don't know about turkey food, but you might want to look into that. Maybe someone else will post....
Congratulations on your new goats!!!

[dragonchick]

Poultry feed is a NO NO for goats. It can kill them unless its just COB with nothing else added. The turkeys will eat the worms and therefor keep the parasite load down. My chickens are always eating goat berries. I've not lost one due to eating the berries. In this case the fowl are the goats friends. The turkeys will learn to stay out of the goats way, and the goats will learn to tolerate the turkeys. You may have to lock the goats away when the turkeys are being fed and don't leave the food out all the time.

[thaiblue12]

Poultry feed is bad it can cause bloat and if eaten too much death to your goats. I keep my poultry feed locked up, feed the chickens in a fenced area and make sure the goats stay out. They seem to love it and will pass up their own food for it.
You really need loose minerals. For goats or even cows, just make sure it has a good amount of copper. They do not get enough from the blocks. I have both for them and they sometimes lick the blocks but they are not getting much from it. Do not get anything labeled for sheep. They cannot have copper and goats need it.
When you first get goats it can be a bit much with everything thrown at you at once. But you will get your own style of doing what you feel comfortable with and enjoy your goats. They can be fun, yet painful if too friendly. You can at times see little hoof marks from where they have been playing and using me as a spring board.

[HollyBearFarm]

Yup, it's perfectly okay for your turkeys to eat goat berries! In fact, the old-timers in my area say that keeping poultry with your goats is the best way to keep your goats worm free. And worms are healthy for your turkeys too.

[deetu]

I want to add to be careful about worming your does since they are pregnant.

I also recently bought a Boer buckling on impulse at the sale. I wasn't going to look and I did but I didn't bid on it but bought it from the person later He is so little that I'm not sure how old he is but he is eating pellets so he gets calf manna and pellets and is doing pretty good. Shouldn't have done it but....

[sgian]

If you plan on getting more goats, you should test for CL at least. Also, check the shoulders for scars. I had one doe that had scars and came back with a weak positive; when I slaughtered her she had hard to find and internal abscesses we couldn't find while she was alive. (The seller knew she had CL, bred her to get more money for her, and sold her at auction to rip off newbies and suckers who didn't know any better.) If you don't plan on getting more goats, then it is up to you. My personal experience is that I didn't test the goats from the sale auction (didn't know any better), and now I have lost almost half my herd to CL. I've lost some of my favorite goats, including the adult billy; I had to shoot several of them myself. I have one more I need to shoot, a nice big healthy looking doe whose abscess I just lanced a couple days ago; however I want to find out if she is pregnant first. Not only has it ruined all my plans for the goats, but now I am waiting until the CL is under control before getting more goats.

If you want dairy, check for CAE too.

If you tend to get attached to animals, do the testing now before you get attached to the goats. If they are just livestock to you, then it is not as important unless you plan to get more goats.

[mulemama]

hi, cheryl,
i bought an ugly, half-dead goat at a sale barn. he had CAE which i sort of knew when i bought him. Coco lived with me for 3 good yrs. before i gave him to someone. (freezer camp)
anyway--- few vets know much about goats (not trained in school). it's best to read & get information from knowledgable people who breed or show. breeders for show have fabulous, clean goats. i own several.
do what you can to take good care of your goats. ask for testing, like others said. Cydectin is a pour-on wormer for ruminates & can be used later for oral worming in goats. i usually bathe sale barn goats with medicated dog shampoo; it gets rid of lice & fleas.
have fun with your goats. tanya

[cjb]

We got goats way before I knew anything about them (including the diseases) and they ended up just fine. Draw the blood yourself or have a friend/mentor do it and have the tests done. Then, most of all, enjoy them. Goats are awesome and, personally, I don't ever think the actual decision to raise them is a bad one.

Everyone needs goats!

[manygoatsnmore]

I think you are being wise in keeping the goats off their designated pasture until the test results are back. Drawing blood yourself is not as hard as you might think, but you will need a source for the red top tubes (know anyone who works at a hospital or lab? ). The needles and syringes are available at the feed store. You want an 18 gauge or larger needle (the needle diameter goes up as the numbers get smaller, so a 16 is fine). Have your vet show you how to draw blood when you call him back and tell him that for your own reasons, you want that testing done! Then in the future, you can do your own draws, which will save you a lot of $$ over time.

Also, worming them in the poultry pen is actually a really good idea. The worms are species-specific , meaning your poultry cannot catch goat worms and vice-versa. By the poultry eating the goat berries, they are actually ridding the area of goat worms. Keeping them off the permanent pasture while they are wormed keeps the worms and eggs from being dropped where they will be eating, lessening the chance of reinfestation.

Okay, so you bought from a sale barn...you've learned your lesson, right? Not gonna kick ya for that one. You're not the only one who's ever given into a soft hearted moment (or three, lol). Now go and sin no more! Enjoy your goats - they are <cough> rather <cough> addictive, you know.

[crazygoatgal]

Just wanted to add. You mentioned giving the goats a mineral block. A loose mineral made for goats is the best thing for them. Sweetlix is a brand I use.