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07/22/08, 01:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Best cure Known for worms.
Best cure Known for worms. 
Keep less goats. On more pasture.
Use pasture rotation in that the goats are never in the same place for more than 2 days a month.
All the worming in the world wont make up for feed lot conditions and poor livestock management.
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07/22/08, 02:05 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ok
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I absolutely agree. but feedlot conditions aren't what create the problem if you are talking about intestinal bloodsucking parasites. in fact dry lot conditions prevent worm loads because the parasites are picked up while grazing. no grazing means no parasites. there are many reasons related to disease to avoid feed lot conditions though. and also we must acknowledge that it would be nice if we could all stock 1 goat per acre but with a watchful eye and judicious use of anthelmintics higher stocking rates can be achieved and therefore a more economical product can be obtained. me for instance. I want a few boers and a few milkers. I only have 2 acres to run them on and that is too high a stocking rate to eliminate parasite problems. but I only have one life to live and I'm not going to wathc it go by not doing the things I want just so that I don't have to worm a few goats.
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A mystery is not an explanation..... on the contrary....no sooner is a myth forged than, in order to stand it needs another myth to support it.
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07/22/08, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Who said 1 goat per acre?
Also feed lot management isn't generally practiced by folks with small herds. They are for instance kept on dirt with access to "the back of the feed bin" to contaminate the whole lot. So while I agree that true feed lot conditions can reduce worm load. Fact is most folks don't even have a clue on what that is.
On this forum there are literally hundreds of posts about worms/worming/fecials ect. If these folks were tought proper animal husbandry rather than a hybred of feed lot/ pasture or better stated they keep their stock in a pasture "like" feed lot. They would have more success and less issues.
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07/22/08, 03:35 PM
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More dharma, less drama.
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 30,482
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I suspect this is one of those threads that's going to get people in a froth.
Part of the goat worm problem is that not everyone can afford enough acreage of brush for the goats they have/want/need.
We do the best we can with what we have. We study and learn and improve.
All of us started as rookies.
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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus
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07/22/08, 03:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Uvalda, GA
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stanb999, you must be talking to me from your box. I haven't been "taught proper animal husbandry." Also, I am clueless as to what "true feed lot conditions" are. Is there a book I could buy?
Why do you use a two-day stay in the same place as opposed to a three-day or five-day stay? Wait, if a two-day stay is the best cure, wouldn't a one-day stay be better?
Paul
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07/22/08, 04:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: North of Houston TX
Posts: 4,817
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NE PA. on a mountain
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On a mountain that freezes?
Even your best pasture rotation practice won't work down here, because eventually your goats have to go back into that first pen, it is not arid enough nor cold enough here to kill any parasites. Imgaine moving a milk string around like that....Nubians hate change, they would be crashing into unopened gate 7 when they were supposed to be going through gate 8 today Vicki
__________________
Vicki McGaugh
Nubian Soaps
North of Houston TX
www.etsy.com/shop/nubiansoaps
A 3 decade dairy goat farm homestead that is now a retail/wholesale soap company and construction business.
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07/22/08, 04:10 PM
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Crazy about horses
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Texas Lake Country
Posts: 784
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It's not very feasible for many people, especially people with small acreages and only a couple goats.
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07/22/08, 04:22 PM
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mostly LaManchas
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians
....Nubians hate change, they would be crashing into unopened gate 7 when they were supposed to be going through gate 8 today Vicki |
ROFLMBO!!!!!!!
So true. hehehehehe
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07/22/08, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Troy, Vermont
Posts: 1,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
I suspect this is one of those threads that's going to get people in a froth.
Part of the goat worm problem is that not everyone can afford enough acreage of brush for the goats they have/want/need.
We do the best we can with what we have. We study and learn and improve.
All of us started as rookies. |
I second that - all of that, Rose. 
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07/22/08, 08:31 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians
NE PA. on a mountain
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On a mountain that freezes?
Even your best pasture rotation practice won't work down here, because eventually your goats have to go back into that first pen, it is not arid enough nor cold enough here to kill any parasites. Imgaine moving a milk string around like that....Nubians hate change, they would be crashing into unopened gate 7 when they were supposed to be going through gate 8 today Vicki |
Now Vicky..... We have had Many disagreements in the past... Right?
But if you move goats every day from one rotation to the next then back to the barn at night. You do this every day. This would be the accepted routine.
The reason I posted this thread is that there are an awful lot of threads about worms and worming. If they really wish to rid themselves one must change the method. You taught me that quite a while back with having Kids at -5F and how this related to keeping the buck with the herd full time. Buy the way I still keep them together full time I've just made provisions for heating the barn. 
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07/22/08, 08:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaManchaPaul
stanb999, you must be talking to me from your box. I haven't been "taught proper animal husbandry." Also, I am clueless as to what "true feed lot conditions" are. Is there a book I could buy?
Why do you use a two-day stay in the same place as opposed to a three-day or five-day stay? Wait, if a two-day stay is the best cure, wouldn't a one-day stay be better?
Paul
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Well Paul,
A proper feed lot has feed and water at one side that the animals can only reach with their head. A dry lot so to keep mud to the minimum to non existent. You supply only the room required to move from bed to table and back. You clean this of all manure build up on a daily basis. The floor can be concrete or stone. But sand is preferred.
Look it up and you can gain Knowledge.
Yes a one day stay would be superior but most folks don't have enough animals to justify that extreme. Look up rotational grazing. You will learn some about proper grazing and nutrition.
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07/22/08, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
I suspect this is one of those threads that's going to get people in a froth.
Part of the goat worm problem is that not everyone can afford enough acreage of brush for the goats they have/want/need.
We study and learn and improve.
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This is the real problem. It's not about acreage. It's about using what you have correctly. For instance how may that keep their goats in a small lot clean it at least once a week... Twice a month?.... Never?. Yeah they clean the barn but not the small paddock.
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07/22/08, 10:27 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanb999
Best cure Known for worms.
Keep less goats. On more pasture.
Use pasture rotation in that the goats are never in the same place for more than 2 days a month.
All the worming in the world wont make up for feed lot conditions and poor livestock management.
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I'm just curious..how many goats do you have and how do you rotate that often? What's the size of the pasture they are in for 2 days a month? What kind of fencing do you use to accomplish this?
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Teach only Love...for that is what You are 
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07/22/08, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Uvalda, GA
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OK. Rose was right AGAIN. Froth…
I’m no longer interested in an answer as to why two days vs. three days. OP claims that “two days is the best cure,” then tells me that one day is superior. HUH??? Never mind. Don’t try to answer it. I’ll just get more prattle.
I’ve noticed that when Rose, Vicki and many others make absolute statements, they list the website for reference; or thoroughly explain the why. People with real knowledge don’t tell posters to LOOK IT UP.
Paul
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07/23/08, 06:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minelson
I'm just curious..how many goats do you have and how do you rotate that often? What's the size of the pasture they are in for 2 days a month? What kind of fencing do you use to accomplish this?
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I have culled/sold them down to 4 because the others wouldn't keep weight during winter. Where I'm at it is winter conditions from Nov. to April. A goat that can't maintain on just hay in these conditions can't stay. I have one more that will probably have to go as well. She lost quite a bit of weight over this past winter, but maintained her thrift. So I'm gonna see how she does by Feb. if it isn't great she will go to the sale barn. The only reason she is still here is she is as sweet as pie and follows you around like a dog. So I really hope she does better.
We don't do rotational grazing because of the hard freezes and large pasture sizes. This will have change as the herd grows for the summer pasture tho. They have a wooded/brush "pasture" for winter it's about 2 acres in size. This isn't used at all for the five months of summer. The summer pasture is about 2.5 acres with 1 acre being brush and 1.5 being grass pasture. It contains a mix of clover and cold season grasses.
This year I'm planting some turnips in the winter pasture to give them winter browse. They maintain nutrition into late fall to early winter. In fact. They give as much protein and forage as an acre of alfalfa in summer. The back of the winter pasture is surrounded by brush and contains large trees. This blocks the worst of the winter storms and hard north wind.
The area I'm in a modern goat really isn't a "perfect" animal so I will continue to cull/sell hard and hope to get a strong, large, and hardy goat that can survive these rather harsh conditions. Doesn't need constant medicine. Doesn't need to be barn kept, Doesn't kid in early to mid- winter. Is hairy as a musk OX (this will be difficult). So this is my longer term goal.
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07/23/08, 07:17 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Missouri
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Ok, so we are getting advice on goat management from a small time unsuccessful goat breeder. I am too, but I'm not acting like an expert on goat management.
You might want to look into Spanish goats. They've already met most of your requirements by running wild without any management at all in North America for centuries. You might have trouble with the kidding part though.
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07/23/08, 07:25 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgian
Ok, so we are getting advice on goat management from a small time unsuccessful goat breeder. I am too, but I'm not acting like an expert on goat management.
You might want to look into Spanish goats. They've already met most of your requirements by running wild without any management at all in North America for centuries. You might have trouble with the kidding part though.
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I'm not unsucessful. I'm trying to do something very specfic. Not just trying to get a quart or three a day of milk or win a prize at the county fair. Those are easy. just keep them clean, feed and water, Spend a little cash.
The herd I have now are a total mix. They consist of.
Lamancha for the short ears and heavy outer coat of gaurd hairs.
No frost bite on ears.
Blocks cold wind.
Boar for the large size and easy weight gain.
Nubian for the down like close hair and milk production.
P.S. the spanish goat is fine for the drier/warmer climates of the south west. My climate is very different than that.
Last edited by stanb999; 07/23/08 at 08:11 AM.
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07/23/08, 08:06 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 5,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minelson
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We move the herd in the early spring and late fall from the winter pasture to the summer if the conditions permit it (daily if needed). The first few times it can be a challenge but after a few days they get it and run. The real pain is they are on opposite sides of the road. Think blind curve/ fast traffic.
To the worming. You may be suprised that you don't need it. Here we "worm" twice a year only. Once in spring and once in winter. I use the ivomec pour on as I have more of an issue with mites and lice than worms. In fact I don't think we have worms. But I never did a fecal. In late winter the mites can cause a loss to thrift so they get it. We also didn't have the mites till 2 springs ago when we got a "new" Boer girl that brought them. She is gone so I hope they are too. But I've worked hard to delouse every thing. We worm when they go to the summer pasture as a precaution. So up until last year it was only once a year.
Those goats aren't free ranged...... They are free. Too cool. Ours wont stay out of the road.
What's with the goat coat? Did you shave it for a show?
Last edited by stanb999; 07/23/08 at 08:14 AM.
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07/23/08, 08:36 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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No..I don't show these goof balls. Gretta was just feeling self conscience about her middle being so large while pregnant so I put a dog coat on her
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