Diarrhea outbreak

[moonspinner]

Today 3 of my kids were scouring. Some of it was dark green liquid. All 3 (two seven weeks, one 11 weeks) were treated for cocci twice so far and all wormed. I've never had to treat like this. So demoralizing.
I am going to get a fecal to see just what this is and what kind of numbers I'm dealing with, but it has to be cocci and or/worms. I can't imagine anything in the pasture would be a culprit.
Could this be some wicked strain? In the past my Sulmet has cleared up cocci very quickly. This year it's been stubborn.
Anyone else going through this?

[fishhead]

Have you gotten a lot of rain lately?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

After you have had goats awhile you will find that old dosages, that in reality aren't adequate, worked, because you really never dealt with a case of cocci. Sulmet at the dosage given on fiasco and places like that, work well on cocci when you are new, live in the north, and really were only using it and keeping low levels of cocci at bay. When stressed with high levels of occysts or more of the most harmful lifecycle, you find that Sulmet simply doesn't work. You blame the drug when in essence it was the dosage all along.

Fecal if you can of course. It's hard to get really good readings on diarrhea of cocci and worms because the poop is liquid and the mama worms are laying hundreds of eggs to get pooped out into the environment during this time of stress in the kids.

If you are going to use Sulmet being a 12.5% use it at the 1cc per 1 pound...really 90cc per 100 pounds, and also give banamine, it will slow the spastic gut and stop the inflammation in the gut, you can only use it for 6 days. Do not dose down by half your sulfa on days 2 through 5 like you do on prevention. Also I soo prefer Corid, specifically made only for cocci.

Sulfa's will also get bacterial infections, do your kids have a fever? It could alo be bacterial, something in a fecal a good vet would find out. Are the kids anemic?

Good luck with the kids!Vicki

[susanne]

i would give probios first and some vit b complex. if you treated for cocci and wormed with a white and a clear wormer, it is possible they ver ate on some greens.
i had this with a group of kids and it was better after only one round of probios.
of course fecal and taking temp to make sure nothing else is going on.

[moonspinner]

Thanks so much for the insights. That's going to be a lot of Sulmet to get into these guys even though they only weigh 10-15 pounds. I generally give more than the typically presented dosage - half of what Vicki stated - and it's cleared right up. This year I found it took longer to see results. Vicki, it's interesting you mention Corid because most of the goaters I've talked to have no faith in it. I'm thinking maybe because I've read you need to get a lot of it into them?
I will also get the Probiotics into them and I did inject B complex into the smallest and most vulernable kid.
As for weather, it was very rainy early on and now hot.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Here's info from dairygoatinfo.com about dosage on Corid. I really recommend lurking around in their Goatkeeping 101 threads. You will learn TONS of stuff. It's too much to absorb in one day or even a week. Wonderful info.

Here's the link, too: http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,65.0.html

Subject: Corid Treatment
If you are going to use the corid, use it at the following rates and syringe it into each kid according to weight.
Putting it in the water is useless. Mine won't even drink milk with it in it.

Treatment dose....use once a day for 5 days..no less.Use it full strength...no water! And yes, you're vet will throw a wall-eyed fit if you tell him how you used it! He will also tell you the "calf dose" which isn't anywhere near strong enough for goats. Been there, done that...didn't work! This dose is 5x's the calf dose and I just,today, did fecals on all my babies! Not one coccidia egg! They are 3mo. olds and Feb. babies. So, I can safely say the doses below work with fecals to back 'em up!

Doses below are 50mg/kg (2.2#)....recommended treatment levels for caprines.

6cc/25#
12cc/50#
18cc/75#
24/100#

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Moonspinner, that is my point though. When you deal with cocci in the way you do in the south, prevention or ruined kids, you find the mg/kg of corid or sulfas and use them like religion. Anyone who has ruined a crop of kids with cocci, knows that the dosages given on most sites, and alot of the advice, all be it well meaning are not dosages that do much of anything. I can tell you that anyone using the Fiasco sites dosage of sulfa is not fecaling to see if it works and/or they simply have such low levels of cocci like with some worming, you really aren't really dealing with enough of either that you need to use prevention like we do.

Using Corid correctly can't not work, because it depletes the occysts ability to move from the harmful lifecycle to the less harmful lifecycle. The drug works by blocking the occyste from using thiamine. So it does not kill all the cocci, just that one harmful lifecycle. So you still see occysts on fecal, just alot less.

So alot of the time when folks are saying I wormed, or I just finished using cocci prevention, it's why we ask..with what and how much, because at bottle dosages, or some recommended dosages you didn't do either.

It's easy to pass around the interent what works from what you have read, or what you have used...but what works from what you have tested is invaluable. Vicki

[moonspinner]

Just looked at my Jeffers catalog and I see they finally came out with a 16 oz bottle of Corid. That's another reason I hesitated because could only find the gallon jug and with my small goaties I'd never use more than a fraction. But yahoo - now only 16 bucks for a bottle!

[chris30523]

I have read you have to supplement thiamine if you use corid? I have not used it because of this.If you don't I will switch cause being in the hot wet south I want to use what works best.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

It inhibits the cocci occyst from utilizing thiamin, not the goat. Now any oral meds overdone, yes destorys benefical bacteria in the rumen and can bring on poliom...... but Corid does not cause this. Vicki

[chris30523]

thanks Vicki.