Treating staph abscess?

[manygoatsnmore]

Just got the results back on the lump on my Oberhasli Sr buck - not the dreaded CL, thankfully. The culture grew out staph - the sensitivity isn't back yet. Googled and couldn't find anything on what med to use to treat the staph and whether I should lance and drain the abscess. I've never dealt with staph in my herd before, and could use the imput from those who have. Not only the buck, but now my dd's 4-H milking doe has a lump on her knee. The CAE and CL tests all came back clean on the entire herd, so I'm comfortable in thinking it's a staph abscess on the knee. Fair is in a week, and I'd like to have this doe healthy and non-contagious in time to be shown, meaning I need to start treating NOW. Oh course, if the knee is still swollen and/or open at that time, the doe will stay home - won't risk infecting anyone else's animals.

Can I inject antibiotics directly into the soft portion of the knee abscess? Do I do the SQ injections like I would any other infection? Both? Which AB is more effective for staph - I know penicillin is less and less effective in humans, but am not sure about goats. Don't have a clue where the buck picked up the infection to start with, but right now, I just want to get both goats cured, ASAP. Hoping someone here can help me out as the vet's office is closed - I can and will call in the morning, but want to get started now, if possible.

Thanks!

[susanne]

was the cl test done on the actual puss?
blood testing is not very accurate.

[AnnaS]

You'll probably have to wait to get the sensitivity test and go from there. "Staph" includes a large range of junk- the microscopic equal of " mammal"- somewhere between mouse and man-eating lion.

I would NOT inject anything directly into a joint without the express direction of a vet. An SQ/IM injection will eventually circulate the antibiotic into the joint. A direct joint injection will often introduce bacteria from the skin surface, creating another infection.

Really, you could do an IM/SQ injection, using label dosage, of any antibiotic you have on hand. However, you MUST make the label recommended amount of injections- 1 cc for 5 days, as a random example. If the bacteria is sensitive to that antibiotic, you have a head start. If it is resistant, you have not done any harm.

.

[Naturaldane]

clavamox is what they use in dogs

[manygoatsnmore]

Thanks for the replies. I should have made it clearer - the test was on the actual aspirate from the abscess. The swelling on my doe's knee is not directly over the joint, but slightly below it. I would not be injecting into the joint, and I would, of course, be using aseptic technique. I'm just anxious to get going, but I guess I'll wait another day and talk to the vet/check the sensitivity.

[pookshollow]

From what the vet has told me, an abscess is the goat's way of walling off the infection from the rest of the body, and it does it very well. Systemic antibiotics are not easily carried into the abscess. It won't hurt the goat to have antibiotics, but it might not do anything for the abscess.

I wait until the abscess is "ripe", ie skin is thinning and starting to lose hair, then I lance it, after dousing the area with alcohol - wearing gloves and carefully disposing of the pus, paper towels, gloves afterward. I usually irrigate afterwards with gentle iodine, repeat the next day, if necessary.

Good luck with your doe!

[BlueHeronFarm]

We were told by our vet that no antibiotics were necessary - that cleaning out the abscess when it ruptures is enough.

We used betadine - ours ruptured just two days after he took the sample of the pus.

I'm glad you don't have CL, either. I know how scary the whole process is!

Also - as sort of an aside - I just got a great tip for other wounds. You can use Today or Tomorrow (the syringes of antibiotic for mastitis) to treat open wounds after you clean them out. The syringe makes it easy to get in there and irrigate the tissue. I suppose you could do that with an abscess, too - but expelling the pus and irrigating with iodine should be enough.

[mpillow]

Bactriban is a topical treatment given to people.....pricey but if you have some on hand use it.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

And I would use Naxcel. It's about the only thing that will get a walled of staph abscess in the udder, you can use it for udder infusions. This is when a good vet is priceless, there are many ways of sweating down this knee that nobody at fair would every be able to tell what is what, and of course the dilution rate of drugs to use to flush it. Horse vets make a product called brace that contains DMSO we have it up on our goatkeeping 101 section thanks to Kaye..you can use it after draining the abscess and use saran wrap and then vet wrap over it to sweat down this knee. If the goat shows any limping etc.. with this than give them just under a dosage of banamine. Vicki

[manygoatsnmore]

Vickie, thanks so much for the info - very helpful. She's not showing any limping, just has the lump below the knee - tender when you mess with it and getting softer and riper. I'm going to work on her this morning. Our vet agreed that aspirating and then infusing the abscess itself was the best way to go considering we don't want an open wound this close to fair. I have DMSO available and Saran wrap, vet wrap etc, so I'm set...I hope, lol! Now to get dd out to hold her for me.

For the buck, I'll go ahead and remove the whole lump.

eta: I'm just so relieved it wasn't CL. I couldn't imagine how he could have been exposed to it since we have a clean herd and no one's left the grounds in over a year (other than my doe going on a road trip with us last month - AFTER the lump appeared). However, any lump under an ear is going to send a chill down my spine until it's cultured and negative.

Now, one more question...is this staph going to make it more likely that this doe could come down with mastitis? or that any of the other milking does could? I'd really hate to see anything happen to any of my girls, of course, but Kasie (the doe with the abscess) is a good, steady milker - not a spectacular peak, but a steady will to milk, even with our sometimes erratic schedule.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

No, this has nothing to do with mastitis unless it cultured for mycoplasma.

Staph is everywhere, worse in the south, better in the north and best in the dry arid desert. Any open wound can potentially get infected with staph and think about knees...they use all their weight to get up and down to lay down. A small poke or scrath then becomes infected with staph...very very common. And why staph mastitis is so prevelant, it's on kids mouths when they nurse, it in the bedding when an orifice is open, and it's on their owners hands when being milked.

It's also why I am such a huge fan or chlorhexideen, really the best topical spray/wash/shampoo for the use in livestock where you have humidity. Vicki

[pookshollow]

If you are using DMSO, be very, very careful with it! It is a "carrier" - it goes straight through the skin, carrying anything else with it. Use gloves, try not to get it on your skin - you'll know if you do, you'll taste garlic within minutes.

Dump the milk - do not drink it. DMSO is an industrial solvent and it will be in the milk.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

And I would use Naxcel. It's about the only thing that will get a walled of staph abscess in the udder, you can use it for udder infusions.

Vicki, can you elaborate on the infusions needed to get staph abcesses in the udder?? I have a friend who thinks he might be dealing with this in one of his does. He does not have a computer. Thanks.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Naxcel is about the only thing that will move through the udder and into a staph cyst, the cyst will break down. You can use a variety of antibiotics in the udder with sterile water or using, Tommorrow udder infusions as carriers and adding antibiotics to them. With Pirsue labeled for staph and Naxcel you can get rid of most staph in the udder, although staph aureous would be a cullable offense at my farm. Gentamycin works really well also, but most vets won't perscribe it for food producing animals. There are some things we do that in the wrong hands can harm the goats, more is not better, and it's why we have Off Topic on my forum. Vicki