newbie question

[Anderson farms]

I am looking at getting some boers. I am looking at a buck and a couple of doelings. One of the doelings is his sister, they have the same mom and dad. Could I buy her also? Would it be ok for her brother to breed her? thanks for any info

[Freeholder]

It's not usually advisable to breed that closely. If you have really good animals, father-daughter and mother-son are okay (if you are prepared to cull any defective animals that result).

Kathleen

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Yes I would get her, but what I wouldn't do is only purchase one buck. By next year you will have nothing to breed the does to, and in a small herd the idea that the buck isn't already related to some of the does, including his full sister is likely. So the purchase of an unrelated buck to breed this sister and the daughters of this buck next year would be smart. Also where are you going to put his sister when he is breeding these does. Alone and you have problems with most boer bucks, they will spend hours during the day trying to beat up your fence posts and the fence posts loose. Look carefully at where you are buying from for CL, abscesses, lumps on the neck and jaw line and scars you can see and feel.

Also have them clip the buck in front of you and trim his feet. Can you do this at home? Most boer bucks have such awful feet, trimming is a monthly chore, not just the small manicure you do monthly with dairy bucks who live in our woods pine straw, but trimming down to keep his feet in good repair. Don't buy goats you can't handle. There is wild and there is without a squeeze shoot you can't touch them wild. If they are in a small run in pen when you see them, beware. Be also ware of "wow is she tired" you can bute or banamine goats just like you can horses to sell 'tame' really drugged animals. Vicki

[RiverPines]

I would never breed sister to brother. The genetic makeup is the same.
Mom to son and daughter to father is ok as they do not share 100% the same genetic makeup, only half the genetic makeup is the same.

Brother and sister results in bad quality, and any minor genetic defects will be enhanced. Its just not a good thing to do.

With animals that you need to do this with, 'extensive culling' is required.
Its done to perfect a breed and it takes years to cull out all the bad.
Its also the worse way to prefect a breed but for cases like extremely rare species its sometimes a need.

Its easy enough to find Boers who are not brother and sister for breeding.
They are not rare or anything.

IMO, unrelated is the best way for a sturdy, quality animal.

[hoofinitnorth]

I would not normally advise breeding brother & sister... however, there are some useful things one can learn from such close "linebreeding" (inbreeding). You can "double up" on the good stuff to see what is there but you will also double up on the bad stuff to see what is there. Both can be helpful, but not completely inconclusive. I think there are better ways that will minimize your chances of having problems, especially when you think 3 or 4 generations down the road.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

"The genetic makeup is the same."
..................

Oh if this was only true! I could just breed for cloned duplicates of my best animals! But sadly not every single one of the chromozomes that make up each goat are used, and all have multiple traits for each one also. Everyone will have a fluke now and then even when not inbreeding, we will have color or a less desirable trait come poking out from generations ago. The reheritablility of something like rear udder is in the low 10%.

"IMO, unrelated is the best way for a sturdy, quality animal."

........................

It's also the fastest way to get mediocre goats, linebreeding gives you consistancy.

The only true hybrid vigor is to crossbreed, Boer to Nubian, Boer to lamancha etc......but only that one generation...then you are right back to linebreeding. Vicki

[Anderson farms]

Thanks for the input! I think I will keep looking. Thank you Vicki for letting me know stuff to look for too. We are trying to decide if we want to raise boer or look at milk goats. New question, which of the milk goats are good for meat also? We were thinking about getting milk goats and using their milk for bottle calves we get usually for a good price. Is it ok to give bottle calves goat milk? Will they drink it?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Milk is milk, all species can tollerate goats milk.

You really have to purchase what you love. Visit as many websites and as many farms and shows if you can to help you pick them. Even if you don't want a top show animal, visiting that show can give you a look into what they should look like. Now not a county show but an official show. I am talking dairy. With boers I would visit farms doing with them what you want to do.

Nubians of course were the dual purpose meat/milk breeds before Boers showed up. Honestly if I wasn't going to show I would have lamanchas.

Edited to add: And shoot if you are even thinking dairy, ask for help. I have a dairy forum dairygoatinfo.com and it helps to have a network of people looking out for you when you deal with goat breeders. There are simply some you should stay away from. vicki

[Goat Servant]

Last yr we bred our Boers to a line bred buck, and some of the girls had some of the same lines in them as well. Only two minor defects...one 50% developed a fish teat which surprised me, I didnt know a Nubian could produce fish teat bred to a Boer. One Boer buckling (who went for meat) had cluster teats.
But then again you will always have something you will cull for. When first starting this venture it was our goal to produce meat.
Then we bought a Nubian cause I've always loved them and wanted milk for my grandson.
Though I can sell all males for meat I personally have a problem letting doelings go for other than pets (im a sexist dont you know) with the exception of aforementioned young doe...
What Im tring to say is that once you decide what you want to do, go for it but leave yourself open to other options as well.
Right now Im providing 3 families with milk...the Nubian is payng her way. Her kids were sold early on.
The Boers are not. We go to a couple of shows a year and they do Ok and its lots of fun.
But unless you have great numbers to take to market and know how to manage them you will not break even. Yust my 2cents.

[sungirl]

Originally Posted by Goat Servant

Only two minor defects...one 50% developed a fish teat which surprised me, I didnt know a Nubian could produce fish teat bred to a Boer. One Boer buckling (who went for meat) had cluster teats.

Any goat has the chance to have extra teats, if it is in the lines extra teats can just pop in at anytime. But I did have a Alpine doeling last year (whos lines have never to my knowing had extra teats.) She had 1 teat above her normal teat, because I cull hard she went to camp for the summer...

Patty.

[KimM]

If you're interested in both Boers and dairy goats, use a good Boer buck on nice dairy does. Then you'll have meatier kids with that hybrid vigor and your does will still give milk. Best of both worlds!