Best wormer for Milkers

Scrounger · #1 06/26/08, 08:54 AM

Ok, I know this has been covered before, but I STILL get conflicting reports.....

What can I use on my milkers with no withdrawl time?

sungirl · #2 06/26/08, 09:19 AM

DE is the only thing I use, I have been using it for 8 years and haven't had any worm overloads.

Patty.

Sweet Goats · #3 06/26/08, 09:24 AM

What kind of worms are you trying to get? That is what you have to figure out FIRST.

whinnyninny · #4 06/26/08, 09:29 AM

I don't know a whole lot about worms or dewormers, but I just ordered some of the Molly's Herbal Worm Formula yesterday and I'm going to be trying that.

goatsareus · #5 06/26/08, 09:32 AM

you need to identify the worms first, then ask for advice

harrisjnet · #6 06/26/08, 09:56 AM

Feed the goat a little tobacco regularly and it will get rid of nearly all kinds of worms.

deafgoatlady · #7 06/26/08, 10:35 AM

Very true about the tabacco. It really does work for the dogs and the goats too.

Alice In TX/MO · #8 06/26/08, 10:44 AM

Take a FRESH poo sample to your local vet. Ask for SPECIFIC info on what worm eggs and how bad.

The herbal stuff is nice for background control, but *most* of us have learned through experience that you still have to use chemicals on occasion.

But... you MUST know what you are worming FOR. If you give the wrong med, then you don't kill what your goats have.

It's like if you sprinkled a fungicide on tomato horn worms in your garden. It won't solve the problem.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #9 06/26/08, 10:57 AM

Whinny because of where you live I can promise you sick or dead animals if you do not learn to fecal before thinking an herbal wormer is going to work for you.

After a comment made in Countryside Magazine many years back about worming with tobacco, once again a single stomach wormer (nicotine or arsenic) it was asked by a vet at UC Davis about the use of tobacco as a wormer in goats. She answered this question in Dariy Goat Journal and said that the amount of nicotine needed to worm a goat for blood sucking worms would also kill the liver.

To the OP....learn to fecal it is easy, all my 4H kids did their own fecals when my daughters were young. And when picking a wormer pick one that kills the adult worms on your farm, heed the milk withdrawal that has been established and go from there.

Vicki

whinnyninny · #10 06/26/08, 11:43 AM

But I should be fine if the herbal wormer works as a preventative, right? I'd still have to do fecals, of course (I'll let my DH do that, he's the medical/science guy), but it helps me use chemical wormers less often, if at all... why not?

DQ · #11 06/26/08, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whinnyninny

But I should be fine if the herbal wormer works as a preventative, right? I'd still have to do fecals, of course (I'll let my DH do that, he's the medical/science guy), but it helps me use chemical wormers less often, if at all... why not?

this is all on the presumption that the herbal wormers do anything. chemical wormers don't make presumptions they do studies. why are there no studies on the herbal wormers???? we probably don't see any because there are no positive outcomes. teh only effective natural wormer studies I have seen are base on lespedeza grazing/browse and tannins. and that is where it is possible for you to get into trouble. thinking that since you use the "maintenance herbal wormer" you won't have to worm with a real wormer as much and your managment becomes lax with a false sense of security. what if you find out you need to worm just as often? most people do. the "natural" wormers are a nice idea but thats about it. teh best natural way to prevent parasite problems is to get at the real root of it. stocking rates. stock your land way under what would be considered the max. maybe around 1 maybe 2 goats per acre. I wouldn't be surprised if you never had to worm again in that situation, especially if you did one good round of cydectin before turning them out on it. this would be especially effective if the land was mostly browse and very little graze. just learn to fecal so that you can be sure your herbal wormer is working

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #12 06/26/08, 01:58 PM

I worm 4 times of year, rarely more. The day the doe kids, 10 days later...before she is bred and at 100 days bred. By worming only when fecals rise from that point forward I am not flying by the seat of my pants with sick or anemic does. I have never had bottle jaw. That is alot less chemical for my goats to filter by their liver rather than monthly herbs and then chemical worming ontop of it, especially when chemical wormings are only used to save a goat. The loss of milk, condition....

So for me I wouldn't be using anything, fecal then use the appropriate chemical wormer that works. With our area you will have to be diligent, does can have a zero worm load the day they kid and the next day have blood loss from diarrhea and anemia from bottle jaw with their HC egg count in the 1000's, why I preventive strike at those 4 times during the year. Vicki

whinnyninny · #13 06/26/08, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DQ

this is all on the presumption that the herbal wormers do anything. chemical wormers don't make presumptions they do studies. why are there no studies on the herbal wormers???? we probably don't see any because there are no positive outcomes.

The reasons (or at least, the main reasons) studies are not done on herbal products is because studies cost a LOT and there's no money to be made in doing studies on herbs. Someone invests money in a study if they believe there is a possibility that the medication has potential to be proven safe and effective... and profitable. Universities do studies on drugs all the time but the studies are funded by drug companies (and funding for studies gets pulled if the results look like they're going to be less than favorable). If the drugs are proven safe and effective, they are patented (for 17 years, I think) and can get FDA approval to be put on the market. You can't patent an herbal supplement (since it is a natural product) so why put all that money into doing a study and proving the supplement to be safe and effective, if a load of other people can jump on the bandwagon and make the same thing and steal all your business away?

My husband and my dad are both pharmacists.

I can try the herbal wormer for a couple months, and if it doesn't work then fine... I've learned a lesson.

deafgoatlady · #14 06/26/08, 03:06 PM

Whinny,
I dont have problems with herbal wormer. I use the herbal wormer all the time. But i STILL use chemical wormer. And it works so much better if we use both. Like for example use the herbal wormer during milking times and all year long but use chemical wormer like 4 weeks before the kidding then do it that day they kidded then about breeding time then use the chemical wormer. It gives them a good start. BUT you will have to give them chemical FIRST before u start the herbal wormer or IT WONT work very well. My vet said that he is surprised it is working so well for me what I am doing like I told u. I love herbal wormer. It makes me feel safer and keep it the count DOWN. But I use chemical for the babies becuz it is easier and make sure the wormer is in them.