Mineral question - is my area just full of ignorant feed dealers

[dbarjacres]

or what?

I'm currently feeding Sprout brand goat mineral which is a gray mineral, 14% salt, 40ppm Selenium and 1400 ppm copper. I've used it 2 years and happy with it. Tried Sweetlix Meat Maker this spring and they didn't like it much, plus it's a red mineral. We have a fair amount of iron in our water.

So, called 2 different mills today, one even specializes in nutrition/mineral. They have "specific" goat mineral which he told me was "high" in copper - one had 435 ppm and the other 515 ppm. Yeah, that's high. So asked about a cattle mineral. He said they won't go over 1000 ppm in copper. What??!! Okay, so tried the mill where I buy my feed at and he told me they had a beef mineral that was 2000 ppm, but a red mineral with a bunch of other junk in it that I didn't want, and all their cattle minerals were under 1000 ppm as well.

Could it just be our area? They absolutly thought I was nuts when I said I wanted 2000 ppm, and not just cause I said for goats.

I only have one doe I ever bolus and she came as an adult from Missouri and none of my other does have any "obvious" copper problems.

Should I just stick with what I have? Don't know who else to ask as to our area specifically.

I could maybe find a Nutrena dealer (not too common w/in an hour of us) to get in Onyx mineral, but maybe that's too high?

It just surprised me they didn't even have cattle minerals that high.

I think Vicki should just make a road trip to us northerners and drop off bags of Blue Bonnet along the way! hehe

[deafgoatlady]

U know what. I have the same problem too. I just stick with sweetlix. I have no choice. I have no idea if my feed store would do the blue bonnet becuz they are nutrena. Whatever u call it. I hope u can figure out and maybe i will try for my self too.

[Freeholder]

Did you check out any horse minerals? I haven't looked at any, but they are more recommended for goats than the cattle minerals are. My goats liked the Sweetlix mineral, and did well on it (we have mineralized water here, too, but it's more calcium than iron), but the feed store that carried it changed hands and now all I can get is the new owner's brand (Grange Co-op). The goats don't like it much, so when it's gone, I'll check out the horse minerals.

Kathleen

[Bay Mare]

Hey, that is not a bad idea - she could spend one night with each of us and it would be a cheap vacation for her. Well except for the gas....

I have been going thru this too. I gave up on the Bluebonnet Tech-Master and moved on to the Onyx Minerals. The store owner called the area rep who called me and left a message that they do have a "goat line" of products and she would be happy to send me the brochure. Because supplements for goats are not supposed to be over 600 ppm. Uh ok

So I called the store owner back and she tried to suggest a horse top dressing that had about 500 ppm (i think). Finally when I explained again why I want the Onyx minerals she told me the price and they will be in Tuesday. I think she just gave up trying to talk any sense into me and just orderd what I wanted.

Angela

I forgot to say that the price she gave me was $31.42 plus tax. I don't know if that is too high as this is the first "good" mineral I have bought and the only one nearby that I can get it from.

[dbarjacres]

Yep I've looked into horse minerals and that's actually what I used for 2 years before Fleet Farm carried this Sprout brand. Land O Lakes Equine Merit is the horse one, still use that for the donkeys. But it's only got 1000ppm copper and the Selenium is quite low too. Haven't found any horse ones over 1200 ppm and checked out 4 different brands.

Yep, Vicki just needs to take a semi-annual trip! Of course room and board at every farm she stops at and we can all chip in a few bucks for fuel too.

[FD2N4P]

ms viki needs that road to come my way also...........sue

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Now that sounds like fun! The problem is, then I have to teach Show me how to pull blood, fecal, trim feet...I would be exhausted!

You have to understand that feed dealers sell feed, they don't usually have stock. The nutritionist at the mill they buy feed from went to school for nutrition, they don't raise stock I fed Purina beef cattle minerals for years, just added my own kelp and Diamond V Yeast to it, I did have to bolus using it....now with Tech Master I don't, but I also can get Onyx about 20 mintues away. I just don't want have to switch, with a very young herd it should be 5 more years before I have something to liver biopsy. Vicki

[dbarjacres]

Now, Vicki, you may be exhausted, but you could charge for that! You could show me the fecal thing, but I'm good on blood and hooves!

So, does anyone know if copper is a regional thing or if it's just across the board on what's needed?

[Minelson]

Where do you get Sprout brand goat mineral? I googled it and couldn't find it....

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

There are areas of the US like with selenium that more than the normal amount is needed. Saanendoah.com did all the legwork on copper and ended up having goats tested all over the pacific northwest. Then we know from testing that there is a strip from Texas, through Lousianna Oklahoma up into Minnesota. Vicki

[DQ]

Originally Posted by Bay Mare

I think she just gave up trying to talk any sense into me and just orderd what I wanted.

Angela

yeppers. thats what you have to do! good job! I'm sure that all the employees run and hide when they see me walk in to the two feed stores I frequent. YOU CAN'T HIDE FRoM ME BEHIND THOSE PALLETS OF FEED! do you guys have this? or that? can you get it? yes I know that you have feed for sheep and that your uncle feeds that to HIS goats. can I browse your stock room and look at tags? yes I know that you have mineral blocks, I need a loose mineral. yes I am going to use this on my goats. ........can you call your feed dealer and tell them to print their tags legibly....please. I need a dohickie to put together a contraption. do have any of those?? .........

[dbarjacres]

DQ, I think that's what most of these places think of me as well! We're so evil!

Minelson, "Sprout" is what the Fleet Farm stores sell their feed under. But on many of the bags it says it's manufactured by Cargill for Fleet Farm, but not on the mineral bag.

[Bay Mare]

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

Now that sounds like fun! The problem is, then I have to teach Show me how to pull blood, fecal, trim feet...I would be exhausted!

What a WONDERFUL suggestion! I am so glad you thought of that Vicki! Maybe you could stay for two nights at each place? Then you wouldn't be exhausted!

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

I fed Purina beef cattle minerals for years, just added my own kelp and Diamond V Yeast to it

How much kelp and Diamond V Yeast did you add? Or I guess I should ask how much would you add to the Onyx since that is what I will be using. I know where to get Thorvin Kelp but am still looking for Diamond V Yeast.

Thanks,
Angela

[southerngurl]

Hey, stop here along the way too. I won't make you teach stuff, promise I'll take 5 bags lol

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Angela I used 4 parts of the minerals, 1 part kelp and 1 part yeast. I would buy a bag of yeast when the girls were heavy bred, and mixed it into the minerals through kidding and early lactation until the bag was gone. I used the kelp year round. Vicki

[cathleenc]

dbarjminis,
are there any established goat people really near you? that could tell you what they do for copper/selenium and what the results are?

or do you have any close neighbors who are using midwest bio-ag? Midwest Bio-Ag will come and test your soils (so will the county extension ag person, I think) and then you'll know what your copper/selenium levels are.

My close-by goat dairy neighbors (2 of them within 10 miles) do not supplement copper at all and do not have problems - one of them has been running a professional dairy for about 15 years and the other for about 6. My very close cow dairy neighbor had Midwest Bio-Ag test their soil - and it was mid to low in copper. I'm using a copper supplement that's mid level.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Unless a great deal of your goats diet is coming from your property soil samples can be a little or alot of help. If you are purchasing hay and grain than of course it is worthless. Vicki

[lonelyfarmgirl]

what kind are you using cathleen?

[Freeholder]

One thing I have found, since joining the dairy goat club here, is that people who have been raising goats for umpteen years, even doing a good job at it, don't always KNOW much, LOL! At least the ones here mostly don't -- they don't seem to read the magazine articles, check on recent research, read all the goat books, or read about goats on the internet. People who had been raising and showing goats for thirty years or more didn't know for sure what Sables were, when ADGA started the separate registry for them. I don't think most of the people in our club know anything about the copper issue in goats. So you can TALK to your local breeders, just like you can TALK to your vet and your feed store manager (who, as Vicki says, seldom own any livestock themselves -- although the manager of the store where I buy most of my feed has Barbados Black-bellies and some cattle, and used to have ostriches!), but you may actually get the most accurate and up-to-date information right here from Vicki or one of the other posters who keeps up on things!

Kathleen

[Becky]

All this talk brings me to a question--its really not enough to feed just grass hay to dairy goats, then, is it? How about other goats? And Viki, how about a stop in Spokane, WA, too?? Don't worry, we don't need you to show us anything, although we would love for you to visit for a couple days before you went on your way! And bring me five bags of minerals!