Picky Goats? Some born and some made??

[ozark_jewels]

We've all heard that "goats will eat anything" at one time or another. Obviously this is coming from the mouth of someone who has never owned goats!

Goats are very clean and picky about what they eat. Picky about their hay, picky about their grain and even picky about their treats! I mean that is gall!

But I do think that us humans sometimes allow them to train us to cater to their pickyness.

Its like children. If you allow a child to tell you that they don't like certain foods and you allow them to not eat them for that reason, you are training a picky eater. But if you make them eat a small amount of the foods that they "hate" whenever you fix them, they learn to eat what is prepared and even can learn to like it over time. I "hated" peas when I was a child. But mom made me eat a small helping anyway and I gradually decided that they weren't so bad. Same for onions, spinach and radishes.

I see my goats being the same way. If I let them, they would tell me exactly what they are going to eat and what they aren't. Perfectly beautiful hay that they eat half of and leave the rest. Feeds that that they don't like. Alfalfa pellets instead of alfalfa hay. Grass hay when they want alfalfa. They have complained about it all at one time or another.

For the first couple years I catered to their whims and gave them what they wanted and fed the rest to the cows.
Then my herd got bigger, my budget smaller and my patience shorter.

I still bought quality clean hay, clean feeds and good mineral. Of course you do that. But I started making them eat it.

I started telling those does that if what I fed them in the morning was still mostly ignored at dinnertime, I would leave it till morning. If it wasn't eaten by morning and check on them again at noon. But it was usually *gone* by morning as they realized that I wasn't going to buckle under their disdain and remove the offending food. They started learning to eat whatever I put in front of them and then oh my gosh....they actually started deciding it was good!

Now 6 years later I have the herd to the point that no matter what it is, if I dump it in the trough, they eat it so as to not let their neighbors get it. They eat the hay I put in front of them until its gone. They don't mind when I switch things around on them.

The only time I have trouble switching is if its on the milkstand and the doe has no competition. Then I have to coax sometimes(especially if its Crystal), but they still don't take long.

Sometimes new does will try to be picky, but they soon learn to dive in and "get it while its hot".

Of course they are still picky about things like slobbery feed, wet/caked mineral, anything dirty...after all they are such a clean animal...they are just being goats!

Anyway, Not a condemnation or a brag, this is just what I have observed about picky goats. Yes, I believe that some are born......but I believe that more are made. Oh yes, they have us trained.

And of course if they refuse a food of any sort the first thing you should always check is to see if its contaminated in any way. That should go without saying.

[Naturaldane]

Since I have started working at TSC I have people buying tiz wiz for 16 a bag because its all their goats will eat, and Im thinking about my goats trying to dive into the tub of horse feed, trying to climb in the can of chicken feed, fighting the chickens for feed, I had to remove all auto pet feeders, the only thing they dont eat is my tomato plants and squash.
So I cant help but think that goats are smarter than your average bear, and can get you to bend over backwards if they think your heart is soft enough. I dont buy special goat food, they get a mix of chicken and horse feed via stealing

[GoatNamedDunn]

I feed mine Grainland Dry Cob. They do really well on it, and they dont get anything else besides what they forage for and orchard grass. I said in another post my goats are spoiled... but I wont let them be picky when it comes to feed. They are picky though when it comes to fruit and veggies. One only likes veggies and the other only likes fruit! Haha!

[CountryHaven]

I think you're right on the allowing them to be picky. In all the years I've owned goats (past and present) I always found myself amazed at the fact that I'd read about the 'eat anything goats' and mine were anything BUT that easy to feed.

Hubby keeps saying about all the wasted hay 'if they get hungry enough they'll eat it' (disclaimer; he's not mean, just trying to be practical in the high hay cost era. He didn't used to be nearly as 'mean' about it... and even now he doesn't 'enforce' the statement)... but my reply is yeah but starving them to eat stuff they don't want is counter-productive.

At the same time, I can see where what you say about allowing them to be so picky they won't even try the stuff that really is good.

One thing that's certain though, goats are DEFINATELY picky to one degree or another... the only problem is the things they'd choose to be NOT picky about, are things we DON'T want them eating... ie: rose bushes, vegetable gardens, the house siding... oh, and dare I mention the wiring on my central air I just had repaired when it wouldn't turn on this spring? The repair man looked up at me with the chewed wire in his hands. I just shrugged and gave him a 'I don't know how THAT would happen?' look... lmao we both looked over at the field where the goats were (at the time, not in the backyard, but they had been many times, lol)... I guess he saw through my 'i don't know' act pretty easy.

[Goat Servant]

Good post Emily! For the first couple yrs they had me trained. "Oh no, we aint touching those alfalfa stems."
Poor darlings.
Now I when fill up that hay rack, I let it get down and dont listen to their complaints when there aint much to be had by their old standards.
When you go into the middle shed you are suppose to come out with armloads of fresh. They think when the truck comes home its their food wagon.
Thats how my user name came about.

[LaManchaPaul]

Goat Servant. That is so funny!! I actually chuckled out loud.

Hey Naturaldane, Can your TSC order the minerals, Bluebonnet Tech-Master, that Ms Vicki uses? If so, perhaps our Vidalia store can also order it.

Paul

[ozark_jewels]

I think this is going to become even more important as prices continue to rise.
I am by no means condoning starving your goats, but making them eat a little more of what they want to waste won't hurt them.
Of course this won't work for the dairies who *must* keep the milk production high......as in the initial stages the milk will go up and down as the goats are made to eat what they'd rather leave.
But the rewards are worth it for the average goat owner. The less hay or feed left on the ground is money in your pocket.
And they really do learn to like eating all of it after a while.
Thats not to say that I don't buy one bale of hay to see if they like it before I buy a load of 200 bales. After all, if they won't even touch it to start with..........I'm not going to be able to talk them into eating all of it or even most of it.

[DQ]

super post! I think this falls in the same line as the statements I have heard made such as "this goat doesn't like to be milked" or "she doesn't want to have her feet trimmed so...she hasn't had it done in a year" as if what the goat wants is what should dictate what happens. this is especially important for newbies to livestock to hear. I have run in to the same sorts of problems in the horse business. people will tell me "this horse doesn't like to jump" so they want to make it a dressage horse or this horse is "noise shy" so they plug its ears every time they ride. not realizing that it is all about conditioning. they animals don't "like" or "dislike" in the same way we do. they either are accustomed/conditioned to it or not ,or to the appropriate/innappropriate reaction or not. (thats why I can't stand to visit the horse forum..it drives me nuts. I have heard it so many times. ugh)

[yarrow]

Originally Posted by DQ

super post! I think this falls in the same line as the statements I have heard made such as "this goat doesn't like to be milked" or "she doesn't want to have her feet trimmed so...she hasn't had it done in a year" as if what the goat wants is what should dictate what happens. this is especially important for newbies to livestock to hear. I have run in to the same sorts of problems in the horse business. people will tell me "this horse doesn't like to jump" so they want to make it a dressage horse or this horse is "noise shy" so they plug its ears every time they ride. not realizing that it is all about conditioning. they animals don't "like" or "dislike" in the same way we do. they either are accustomed/conditioned to it or not ,or to the appropriate/innappropriate reaction or not. (thats why I can't stand to visit the horse forum..it drives me nuts. I have heard it so many times. ugh)

I'm right there with you guys.. I joke about our girls *being spoiled* but our type of *spoiling* is more along the lines of them expecting a lot of love and at least a moment or two of *private time* with either Jess or myself ... everyday. Everybody knows their name. We always take time to love & hug & talk to each one. (even stinky bucks get a bit of love...granted less hugs, more of one extended finger tickling a *dry* spot & lots of "kissy sounds and good boys") We feed ZERO treats by hand, never a cookie, never a piece of apple. I can't stand feeling liking I'm in the middle of an out of control petting zoo. I will not be climbed on or mobbed everytime I walk out among the herd.
((((I was a dog trainer for 20 years BEFORE I got goats. Old habits die hard LOL))). I simply EXPECT everyone to have manners. I also expect ladies to act like ladies on the milkstand. I don't own a doe that needs the head catch closed..Of course they start out having to be gently drug up on the stand (I don't ever put them on the stand until they freshen) The head catch is locked and we'll have stomping & hoping, the works.. BUT.. that only lasts a couple milkings, because she learns from day one, this is your job, this is how you do your job. We are slow, we do EXACTLY the same thing, day in & out. I NEVER loose my temper or act out. My gentle handling, may get a bit firmer, but never hash or cruel. (dog trainer again LOL. I might be boiling inside, but don't show it on the outside LOL)) I've got the thumbs, it's my job to TEACH. By a week or two there's no need for a head catch. I've gotten where I even expect the new moms to learn to squoch their feet over and place their udder over my bucket, instead of me moving to her. I just refuse to accept bad behavior. I just make it easier & quicker to be *good*.
On the food front, I don't own picky goats. Picky goats quickly become hungry goats. The goat herd is divided into pushy goats & not so pushy. Kids are with kids. Bucks with bucks. We *communal* feed among each group. Lots of big food bowls (plastic mineral tubes), no one has a specific tube to eat out of. We pour the food and everyone dives in. A goat that stands off wanting something different, is a goat that better like the browse or hay later ! LOL. We feed the same thing, day in---day out. We actually mix what little grain we feed *usually just oats, if they are looking dry. I'll throw some BOSS on top, but not much. Mostly it's lots of alfalfa pellets. No one picks out the grain, leaving pellets.. there's no time. Someone is gonna eat YOUR pellets, if you pick LOL. ((the kids -both weaned & those still on the bottle- are fed a meat goat medicated pellet & alfalfa pellets mix, just like the bucks)) The does that aren't being milked, get very little grain or any sort. I do feed grain on the milkstand (actually I feed a mix of oats & a 16& grain goat ration) each girl gets a little less then half a coffee can worth, each time. We feed twice a day (year round) we of course back off a bit on the amount fed, during the green months. There is always either browse or grass hay available. We don't have a lot of hay waste. Just because it fell on the ground infront of the hay rack doesn't make it nasty, goats realize that's still good hay. Some of them will just wander along eating that, instead of pushing & shoving at the rake LOL. I do not refill hay racks until it's empty. I just can't stand seeing them waste...but around here, there's very little waste. I free range the chickens. I do throw out a bit of scratch twice-a-day, but not a lot. These are *working* chickens. They run everywhere, not a bite of dropped grain is ever left to rot LOL.
good thread Emily... with the tough times now & worse coming.. I don't see how people are going to be able to afford *picky* goats? ((just in case things get really tight this winter, I've double bought my amount of square bales.. that way, I can feed more grass hay, less alfalfa pellets to the big goats. I'll still cough up the cost for alfalafa for the kids & my milkers will still get some))

susie, mo ozarks