HOOF ROT, need advice

MandersGoaters · #1 06/18/08, 01:09 PM

I'm pretty sure it's hoof rot, it stinks like all get out, and looks absolutely terrible! I milk this girl 2 times a day, and i noticed her foot was a little swollen yesterday morning, i looked at it and everything looked okay, but this morning all had changed, it was funky and really swollen, so I shaved her hair, scrubbed her with iodine soap twice, rinsed that off, and applied some koppertox, and gave a SQ inj of LA-200,
we have had rain here, quite a bit, but the barn is dry completely, and clean, it's the lot. they have to walk thru the lot to get to the barn. the lot is funky and needs cleaned out, but we have to wait until it dries up a little to get to it.
i am going to move the girls so they don't have to even get into the lot.is there anyhting else i can do, i should have took the pics before i did all that, but you can still see the nasty in there....is my boo gonna be okay? what else can i do for her?
HOOF ROT, need advice - Goats

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #2 06/18/08, 02:45 PM

Did you know that most hoof problems starts with copper defficency and ends when copper is adequate in the diet. Coopertox which is what you should be dipping these feet into is copper...as is copper sulfate hoof bathes used for sheep.

Also when trimming these feet. See how the heels are touching? If you took off the inside circles of heels his toes (when the feet aren't swollen from infection) would come together like they should.

I would use a 200mg tetracycline, not LA200 unles it's all you can get and start him on 3.5cc per 100 pounds under the skin for at least 6 days, better would be 24 hours after this isn't so inflammed.

When your weather is really wet you may have no choice but to keep the herd on a feed through tetracycline crumble, or else improve the drainage and give them solid covered pallets to get up out of the wet.

It's not soo much hoof rot as in the bacteria form of hoof rot cattle get as in just plain old foot rot from too much moisture. Vicki

RiverPines · #3 06/18/08, 03:36 PM

Hoof rot is also a big problem when there has been excess rain like there has been.
Perfectly healthy animals can get hoof rot when nature has been wet to long.

I never had it that bad.
Looks like both fungus and a secondary bacterial infection has started.
Antibiotics. I would go with injections of PenG since its great for flesh based bacteria.

I would soak that foot too but I don't know hat you can use off hand.

I have managed, with the wet year we are having, to catch it in its earliest stages and with some iodine and hoof rot spray from the farm store, my animals hooves have cleared up right away.

MandersGoaters · #4 06/18/08, 08:54 PM

when should i expect improvement? couple days?
a copper def.? how can that be when I feed free choice minerals, purina goat mineral, and yes she consumes the mineral, i don't understand.
I have used Koppertox twice today, once this morning and once this evening, thats the green you see in the pic. LA200 4.5cc is what my vet said to use.
It looked a little better *maybe* this evening, like maybe some swelling has gone down, or maybe i'm just hoping.
I put pallets down this morning, made an alley way to the barn, the barn is clean and dry and she also has the milk stand (which she sleeps on anyways).
when or will i see improvement?

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #5 06/18/08, 10:58 PM

The antibitotic takes 24 hours to start working, the kopertox will start drying it out quickly as long as she is not standing in water still. Up the amount of LA200 if it is not 3.5cc per 100 pounds and make sure you are giving this under the skin and not in the muscle, you are going to run out of muscle before you run out of shots to give. Alternate sides each day and really get it under the tent of skin you pull out, not in the fat or in the skin.

So in 2 days you should really start seeing improvement but you got probably 10 days of treatment to do. Then trim her feet down and from now on flood the feet with kopertox after you trim and clean your trimmers/knife.

Because they don't assimilate alot of the copper sulfate in the Purina goat minerals because it is so full of iron, iorn from the iron oxide but also the molassas. If you have iron in your water or your soil than that is more iron she is getting. If you are also low in selenium this also stops them from utilizing the copper, then add sweet feed or galvanized water troughs or pipes to the barn leaching zinc...and your does are copper defficient no matter what mineral you put out. First think about bolusing, then fix all of the above problems as you can. The only costly one for me was the PVC from the well to the barn, the rest was just change that took time as I ran out of mineral and changed feeds. The difference in feet, hair quality, numbers of healthy live kids born, does cleaning after delivery, just overall herd health and worm burdens gone...was worth all the work and testing it took to finally figure all this out. Read over at saanendoah.com a really good place to start. Vicki

MandersGoaters · #6 06/19/08, 09:49 AM

so it looked less swollen today. but oozy, i called my vet and he said to use Nuflor next(tomorrow) that he has seen real good results from nuflor and foot rot in cattle and goats.
so would a blood test reveal a copper deffiency?
so are you saying ALL my goats have copper deffiency?
oh and also, i have been putting the koppertox on her hooves, between her toes, and on the skin thats affected...is it okay to put it on the skin?
I'm just worried. you've been a real help!
thank you

MandersGoaters · #7 06/21/08, 01:19 PM

can you use the Koppertox on the skin, between the toes? will it hurt the skin?

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #8 06/21/08, 01:47 PM

so it looked less swollen today. but oozy, i called my vet and he said to use Nuflor next(tomorrow) that he has seen real good results from nuflor and foot rot in cattle and goats....

Did you start the Nuflor then? Are you giving shots daily? There is no long acting anything with goats and they need shots daily.

so would a blood test reveal a copper deffiency?

No, it's actually what we have learned...that copper levels in the blood of goats tells you nothing about what is actually stored and utilized in the liver. A liver biopsy is the only way to know.

so are you saying ALL my goats have copper deffiency?
....................

Likely yes if this is the problem giving you the feet problems. I know in my herd, we live in the woods so our soil is spongy leaf and pine mulch with a sandy bottom, we just thought foot problems were just the way it was. In learning about copper for other problems in my herd, the bonus of bolusing and then moving to a better mineral was the complete disappearance of food problems.

oh and also, i have been putting the koppertox on her hooves, between her toes, and on the skin thats affected...is it okay to put it on the skin?
....................

I sprayed it on, but in bad cases like you have we would dip their foot of to mid cannon bone in koopertox in a coffee can. So no it is fine for the skin...it is afterall only copper sulfate.

Nearly all disease, worms etc. is about whole herd health management. This goat, and black goats are the ones who show you copper defficency first, they tinge their hair in red, they have softer feet, they blow their hair coats and loose tail fringe first, but it is in all your other goats, just not showing overtly yet. My problem came to the forefront when it became an issue at kidding season, if we did not attend all births...and with 4 pens of 20 milkers for the dairy this was impossible...there would be kids born in sacks that they could not get out of, does who didn't clean and poor conception rates. With copper (we had been using selenium injections for a few years with no help for this) we have never had this happen again. Vicki

Vicki

LaManchaPaul · #9 06/21/08, 02:56 PM

Vicki, she milks this doe. What is the off-milk time after administering a sequence of NuFlor? Paul

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #10 06/21/08, 05:30 PM

Sorry Paul I don't use Nuflor so I would look it up in goatkeeping101 at dairygoatinfo.com...we have all the old saanendoah.com med lists up there that are no longer active. I am a naxcel gal for vet scripts, and in this case I would have used tetracycline it would be the drug of choice with a 72 hour milk withdrawal at 3.5cc per 100 pounds given for 6 days. Given longer than you up the milk withdrawal by 12 hours for each day. Vicki

LaManchaPaul · #11 06/21/08, 07:31 PM

Thanks Vicki. I found it!!! withdrawal time is 120 hours for milk; 28 days for meat.

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences...wtimeJan05.pdf

Paul

KimM · #12 06/22/08, 11:49 AM

How's your doe doing today??

MandersGoaters · #13 06/23/08, 06:20 PM

the nuflor worked wonders! along with iodine scrub/soak twice daily, koppertox twice daily, and good ole' wheat bread!! she loves her wheat! I give her a bite everytime i work on her, but she really doesn't need it, she stands very good for the whole routine!
it's not oozy anymore, nor red, nor swollen, just needs to heal where the tissue broke between her toes. thanks viki!
oh yeah, and i'm saving the milk for little "scooter" he's fed five times a day...and if he'd just learn to nurse boo, she'd take him!
I'm thankful for this site, and all of you guys on here! you help out tremendously!