what can I do about this stubborn goat?

[farm mom]

O.K., I have this 3/4 Nubian, 1/4 Saanen goat. This is her second freshening but she is new to us as of January. She is a very large and powerful goat, 200 lbs. I am a fairly small person, 5' and a little over 100 lbs. I need a goat that will work with me and not against me. When we first started milking her she was a handful, wouldn't get on the stand, kicked at us, etc... We called the previous owner (my daughter's 4H leader) and she said she never had those problems. We worked through it by sheer force and determination (basically giving her no choice but to do it our way). She was fine for some time. The last month or so she has decided she will take us a on a joyride when it is time to be put away after milking. She goes into the milkroom fine because she knows she is getting her grain. But on the way out she dives for the metal garbage cans with the grain and tries to knock the lids off, tries to pull us all over the yard before being put away. She is way to strong for me. Even with my daughter helping we barely make it. Then she will be fine for a few days and be perfectly behaved. When she decides to be naughty no amount of force or physical punishment effects her. She just shuts down. She knows she is stronger than me and there is nothing I can do about that. If my "mental game" is right on she seems to be better. However, my 12 year old daughter enjoys doing the milking to help out and she obviously has no ability to do anything when Dove gets in these moods. Is there anything I can do to get the upper hand here? We have had many goats here and a large number of other farm species (including untrained horses) and have never had these problems. Thank you!

[nehimama]

It is my belief that milking your goat should be one of your most pleasurable chores of the day. It seems this goat is much more than you can handle, and I don't say that to be mean!

Have you considered selling her back to the previous owner, and perhaps getting a smaller, more cooperative goat? I just don't know how you will ever be able to get and keep the upper hand, given the size of this goat and your small stature. You MUST be the boss, and the goat MUST know that. Obviously, that isn't the case here.

I wish you weren't having these problems with her, and really wish your milking chores could be much more relaxing and rewarding for you.

Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in with helpful tips for you and your goat.

NeHi

[Alice In TX/MO]

I agree. Get a different goat before someone gets hurt.

[Rockytopsis]

To me this goat is tellin you that she is the boss. If it "ME" and "I" wanted to keep her, what "I" would do is lay her down and hold her there till she gave in.

I had to do this with with a large goat I had 3 times before she accepted me as the higher up. I had to have help twice to lay her down but the third time I decided it was me or her and I won. We have also had to do this with a buck. It is important that you stay on top of the goat till it relaxes.

I know a lot of folks do not like this method but it worked for me.

And as nehimama said, a different goat may work better for you.

[Tracy in Idaho]

Get a pinch collar that they use on dogs -- the one with the prongs. It will do wonders for her leading attitude.

If she has a beard, those work nicely for leading as well.....as does their ear.

Otherwise, a good selling cures a lot

Tracy

[farm mom]

Thanks all! The laying down is interesting. We do that with horses in extreme cases to humble them, never thought about it with goats. I have used an ear to try and lead her, doesn't get her attention. A prong collar might work. It is funny though because she will be an absolute angel for awhile then get a wild hair up her butt and try this for a few days. Unpredictable! I do have another goat that we milk (La Mancha) who is a dream to work with. I have two of her doelings retained for next year milking. But this year I do need Dove to supply my family of 8 on milk. We just can't do it on one goat and still bottle feeding two babies. My plan was to try some of my neighbors boer goat meat this year. If we like it I was going to breed Dove to a boer and have her raise the babies for us. If we don't like it I was going to sell her. We just need to get through this year with her! She is a fantastic milker, gives lots of milk, and it tastes great, just need a little cooperation!

[mygoat]

Get a stock whip. On those days when she is stubborn or goes grain can diving, close up the milk room and chase her around with it. You don't want to make her leery of the milk stand though, so only use it for corrections when off the milkstand.

If she gives hassles with walking, try a dog chain, and have it right under her head like in shows. This is the best placement for a collar for control. If she stops or tries to reverse, have your daughter walk behind and knee her in the bum (or better yet, carry that stock whip). If you're leading her alone and she stops, reach back and grab a handful of hair right above the tail, pulling it forward to get her to move. All the while keep the collar right under her head so she can't haul you around.

If she tries to pull, grab an ear or a beard. When mine are being unruly I give 'em a smack on the face with a loud NO. Even my bratty herd queen settles down fairly quick.

[Middle River]

I would reccomend a the pinch collar too, or possibly a halter ? Good luck, i'm sure she will be a good girl once she knows who the boss is.

[oceanmist]

Originally Posted by farm mom

Thanks all! The laying down is interesting. We do that with horses in extreme cases to humble them, never thought about it with goats. I have used an ear to try and lead her, doesn't get her attention. A prong collar might work. It is funny though because she will be an absolute angel for awhile then get a wild hair up her butt and try this for a few days. Unpredictable! I do have another goat that we milk (La Mancha) who is a dream to work with. I have two of her doelings retained for next year milking. But this year I do need Dove to supply my family of 8 on milk. We just can't do it on one goat and still bottle feeding two babies. My plan was to try some of my neighbors boer goat meat this year. If we like it I was going to breed Dove to a boer and have her raise the babies for us. If we don't like it I was going to sell her. We just need to get through this year with her! She is a fantastic milker, gives lots of milk, and it tastes great, just need a little cooperation!

my sister runs over 200 goats and what she finallly did to train her goats to stay out of the grain barrel.. and let me tell you it really works! She got herself a Hot Shot, you know the cattle prod sticks and she zapps those goats a good one when they try to bust down the door or get into the barrel, it doesn't take long before they get the hint...

Misty