breeding age

christie · #1 05/31/08, 02:18 PM

I read that in the fall a doeling can be bred as long as shes 80lbs,
The owners of the goat that I am looking to buy and the vet say to wait till shes 2.
What do you think is the best age?

goatsareus · #2 05/31/08, 02:22 PM

the first fall after she is born, usually at 7 months to freshen at about one year of age

TennesseeMama23 · #3 05/31/08, 02:25 PM

The owners and vet doesn't know what they are talking about. Unless the does is small and has growing to do. It takes a lot of work to get one to 80 lbs and if you don't do things right it won't happen. They should gain 10lbs a month. So a 10 lb (at birth) kid should weigh at least 80lbs at 7 months old.

This is for full size dairy breeds of course.

There are disadvantages to waiting, also. They will store up fat in the wrong places and it (supposedly) makes kidding harder on them.

Though my 2yo ff did beautifully this year--she made 2x as much milk than my 1yos.

Ernie · #4 05/31/08, 03:00 PM

My goats don't store up much fat, even at 2 years. I don't feed them grain except in the winter or when they're milking though. That may be the difference.

Mine were bred at 9 months. No problems except one of their kids died about 3 days after birth from fluid in its lungs.

goatkid · #5 05/31/08, 03:45 PM

There are two schools of thought on this. Some breeders prefer to freshen their does at two because they feel they will have better growth on them when they freshen. If they receive no grain from when they age a year old inthi they are two months from kidding, they likely will not get fat. The question with this is, can you afford to feed a doe for two years before she starts paying her way, and, if you are breeding for show quality animals, do you want to put two years worth of time and money into a goat you may wind up culling anyway. I breed mine to kid as yearlings. I'm aiming for show quality udders and don't want to waste a year on them when I must cull every year to keep my herd manageable and affordable. The risk with this is a big single who can be hard to deliver or a doe who gets thinner than you would like after carrying twins or triplets. Most of the time, however, my yearlings do just fine.

RiverPines · #6 05/31/08, 03:59 PM

Breed matters too.
Pygmies often have probs birthing and its best to wait till they turn at least 1 before getting bred.

I like waiting till 1 yr 'minimum' for all our goats, no matter what the breed.
I wait longer if the doe is slow to grow.

Zone · #7 05/31/08, 04:20 PM

I will breed my young does this NOV/DEC when they are 8/9 months. IF for some reason they are not at least 80lbs by then... I will wait a little longer. But with good management they should be that weight by 7 or 8 months old. I breed for show, dairy and breeding stock. I can not afford to wait for two years. But the health of the doe must always come first.

ozark_jewels · #8 05/31/08, 06:17 PM

I will breed my 2008 February-born doelings in September/October of this year. They will kid out by about one year of age and I will know udder quality, milking ease, kidding ease and they will have paid their way with one, two or three kids.
I cannot afford to hold a dry yearling over in my barn. They are a pain in my side to put it nicely.

Kids fed correctly, kept up on worming and cocci prevention should easily be 75-90 lbs by mid to late breeding season. That is the weight I breed by. And of course they must be well-fleshed, well-grown lbs, not all fat lbs.

Of course, remember that they will be growing kids as well as themselves for those five months, and feed accordingly.

sungirl · #9 05/31/08, 07:22 PM

I always have bred at 8-10 months of age. As long as the doe is atleast 80 pounds and will kid out after she turns one it shouldn't be a problem. I have kept a few dry yearlings over the years (some never hit the 80 pounds by Nov when my deadline is.) They can turn out to be the best milkers, but my largest goats all have been bred at 8 months of age. They have the points for them when they go in the 2 year old milk classes. They are on their second fresh udder and have been milking for a year.
Now I do have a rule that if they are new to goats I tell them to wait. To many good goats have been ruined by people wanting the best but just lack the know how to feed a 8 month bred doe. ( Not Always but some.)

If anyone else seen Ozark Jewels misprint. I know she means her 2008 Feb born doelings.

ozark_jewels · #10 05/31/08, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sungirl

If anyone else seen Ozark Jewels misprint. I know she means her 2008 Feb born doelings.

Thank you!! I misprint dates *all* the time.

Fixed now.

Oh, another thing is that yearling FF may not produce a lot of milk their first year, but by the time they freshen their second year they will sometimes double or triple their production.
I never cull a doe for production as a yearling....If I do, I may sell some of my best producers.

christie · #11 05/31/08, 10:01 PM

This doe was born in Feb.. And it sounds like you are saying go for it if she is of good flesh.. When I figure how to post pics I'll send some of her!

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #12 05/31/08, 10:30 PM

10 pounds a month is certainly a minimum amount except perhaps in oberhasli. Make sure when you are making decisions like this that it isn't just weight but that your feeding program is excellent. Some form of alfalfa every single day, she is not only growing but growing kids and udder. No time to skimp. Vicki

Naturaldane · #13 05/31/08, 10:34 PM

do goats swell when they are in heat? Noticed the oldest bottle baby was slighty tonight and shes 5-6 months old

sgian · #14 06/01/08, 12:40 PM

Their vagina may get red and swollen when they are in heat.

Has anyone noticed a higher mortality rate for kids and less milk production for a doe's first kidding? Or breeding before the 2nd year?

**mygoat** · #15 06/01/08, 01:04 PM

There is a lower production rate for FF. My two FF are both at 6lbs per day, and I expect that to increase a lot next year. With flushing, twins is normal for first fresheners - I've only ever had a single born once out of a FF, and have had as many as triplets. Singles are usually larger and therefore can be more difficult to deliver for the doe.

I feed my FF just like all other goats - They get 1lb once per day starting two weeks before kidding. Other than that, free choice hay/pasture.

My minatures are a bit different. They never reach proper breeding size by the breeding season after their birth. They usually are bred by the next year and kid out for the first time about their 2nd birthday.

As for mortality rate, I hardly have kids die EVER, I believe most kid deaths are management issues. I'm present at ALL kiddings to catch/pull kids as needed, make sure the airways don't get fluid in them, and to dip navels. I also watch the doe for the afterbirth etc.

AnnaS · #16 06/01/08, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie

The owners of the goat that I am looking to buy and the vet say to wait till shes 2.

I'd ask the owner why this particular doe kid should wait until 2 years old to kid.

It may be that the answer is "I always breed that way." or a variation of "They still look like babies at 7 months!". In that case, you could breed her at 80-90 lbs.

If the breeder says, "This doe line is slow-maturing and doesn't grow out properly if they kid at one year." or tells you something about the kid being very ill or having other (non genetic) health issues, I certainly would wait. I will hold over doelings who gain properly but are fine boned.

Most breeders breed doelings for yearling freshening. Most breeders will also hold over a doeling who is not growing properly, or doesn't have good bone yet. Show breeders will sometimes keep a nice doeling unbred to keep her showing in the junior doe shows. Dry yearlings have a show advantage over this year's kids.