another bottlefeeding and weight question

[sgian]

What started out as a supplemental bottlefeeding has turned into replacement for a mother who no longer produces milk within a month of giving birth. He kept trying to feed, but she seemed to run out quickly and he would alternate teats back and forth without getting anything until she kicked him off. I guess once we find out if the vet here does that CAE testing that doe will be one of the first to be tested. We think they are mostly boer.

The wife only wants to bottlefeed once day. Even after two weeks, this stubborn little goat hates the bottle and has to be held tightly and have the nipple shoved in his mouth to feed him. It is also very messy, with him jerking the nipple out, letting the milk flow out the other side if he gets the chance, and peeing on whoever feeds him (once three times in one feeding). We aim for 6 oz at a feeding. So this little chore is getting tiresome. We've tried cow's milk, but we usually use goat formula. He eats grass, rabbit food, and loves oranges. Today he was nibbling on the mineral block, so he is getting other food too.

So around three weeks old, would 6 oz once a day be enough bottlefeeding? Also, how much should he weigh at this age, and how much should he be gaining every day or week (whichever is easier to mention). We weigh him everyday before feeding to check on him. Today he was 9.2 lbs.

Here's a pic of them in the new pasture we finished today, taken from inside our troublemakers' pasture (which is the explanation for the second layer of field fence to make the fence taller).

[Alice In TX/MO]

1. No, that's not enough.

2. It takes a while to transition a baby from teat to bottle.

3. Store bought replacer is not good for baby goats. Get whole milk from the grocery store.

4. Why don't you put him down? I say this because he's male (not a breeding addition to your herd), stunted, and if your wife doesn't want to feed him - well, that's a problem.

If you decide to keep trying, here's a bottle feeding schedule from fiascofarm.com

* Day one- 6 oz. (per feeding) colostrum, every 4 hours.
* Day two- 8 oz. (per feeding) colostrum/whole milk, 4 times a day
* Day three- 10 oz. (per feeding) colostrum/whole milk, 4 times a day
* Day four- 10-12 oz. (per feeding) colostrum/whole milk, 4 times a day.
* For the next week- 10-12 oz. (per feeding) 4 times a day.
* For the next 2 months- 10-12 oz. (per feeding) 3 times a day.
* For the next 1 month- 10-12 oz. (per feeding) 2 times a day.
* 10-12 oz. (per feeding) once a day for two weeks.

[sgian]

We haven't put him down because I told my sister I wouldn't eat him when I bought him from her, we were hoping to have a second male for breeding (for diversity and a backup), and because he is cute.

Is he stunted? How much should he weigh by 3 weeks old?

[waygr00vy]

I am not sure how much a boer should weigh, but 6 oz a day will definitely not bring him to his full potential and will be lucky if he lives off of it. Definitely will not turn him in to your future herd sire. My nigerian dwarf babies get 6-8 oz 3 x per day at 3 weeks old.

[sgian]

Would it be easier to bottlefeed him if he was separated from his mom all the time? We keep him with her even though he gets very little if anything from her (though he still tries occasionally) because they are very attached to each other.

[Alice In TX/MO]

We babysat a miniature goat that was a bit older than your kid, and it was drinking 8 to 10 ounces three times a day. Plus eating feed.

I'm not familiar with Boers. He just looks small to me. Also, if he hasn't been eating well for a while.... I'm concerned.

Have you given him his shots?
Have you started him on coccidiosis prevention?

[Naturaldane]

Sometimes its easier to forget the bottel and try a bucket or a syringe, we have moved to the syringe and its slightly less messy and faster.

[sgian]

The wife was convinced today by this thread to feed 3x a day and try for 10 oz at each feeding. We weigh him every morning before the first feeding, this morning he was just over 10 lbs.

As for treatments, we gave him ivermectin when we first got him for lice (he had a lot of them). We plan on giving him a tetanus shot soon. The only other shot we have given him is one shot of agricillin the day I came out in the morning and found him soaked from dew and shivering. His temp was normal, but I brought him in for a while to dry him off and make sure he stayed warm. I usually just give wormer to new additions and if we notice a problem like bottlejaw. We just opened up a new pasture that has grass about 4 feet tall, so most of the goats will have some time there before they crop it short enough to pick up worms again.

[ozark_jewels]

Good to hear!! If she can get him to take more than that(working up slowly) that would be even better. My kids are drinking at least thirty ounces at each twice a day feeding. But they are also 2-4 months old and weighing 25-55 lbs. Your boy should start taking more as he gets older.

Hate to be a wet blanket but it seems like this boy may not be a good choice to keep as a herdsire. Dam and sire is very important in a breeding buck and this dam is having a rough go of it. Even if you don't mind using a crossbreed buckling, there are quality crossbreds to choose from.
Having such a rough start he is quite small for his age.....hard to say how he will turn out....but do you want to perpetuate his genetics?

[sgian]

I haven't had a job since being discharged by the army at the beginning of the year so I'm running out of money and can't really afford quality right now. That's why all my goats have come directly or indirectly (through relatives) from a sales auction. My other billie is in quarantine right now waiting on the results of a CL test (probably a week or two), and I had hoped that other billie's Spanish genes mixed with Boers would make some hardier meat goats. So I don't see myself as having much of a choice right now with this little billie kid (George).

George collapsed this evening and was crying. We suspect it might be bloat from increasing his bottle-forced-feedings from 6 oz once a day to 10 oz 3x a day starting yesterday. This afternoon he had refused rabbit pellets and orange slices, which is rare for him. So he was getting stuffed. However, he is the same weight (10.4 lbs) as he was yesterday before we increased the bottle-forced-feedings (which seems odd to us). I got him to down most of a peptobismal tablet and brought him inside for observation. He seems to be doing better now. We are probably going to drop to 5 oz 3x a day tomorrow and give as many rabbit pellets as he wants afterwards, then work back up to more.

[sgian]

This morning George was down to 9.8 lbs when we did the morning weigh in before feeding. So in the 48 hours of 10 oz feedings 3x a day he lost just over half a pound!?

We are thinking that maybe the extra amount of formula reduced the amount of browse and feed he was eating, causing the weight loss. Does that sound like a plausible theory? Any other ideas why he would lose weight with more feedings?

[delphinium]

I have 12 day-old twin (doeling & buckling) nigerian X cashmere kids that were rejected by their mother that are taking anywhere from 10 oz. to more than 16 oz. of milk at each feeding 3 times a day. They are not being force-fed, this is just however much they choose at each feeding.

[Alice In TX/MO]

No, I don't think it's reduced browse. I think he may have had a big poo just before you weighed today.

[Freeholder]

I agree with the others that this buckling is a VERY bad choice for a herd sire. If you use him, you risk his daughters being like his mother, with little or no milk -- this is definitely NOT what you are going to want to have to deal with on a regular basis! They may be meat goats, but if they don't produce milk, their babies don't grow (as you are finding out!).

Don't be so desperate that you make bad choices! To be honest, I would put both the doe and the kid in the freezer -- if your income is low right now, you can't afford to be feeding worthless animals. Your method of obtaining animals is not necessarily bad, but it does mean that you are going to encounter more animals with problems than you would otherwise, simply because most of the stock that goes to auction does so for good reason. You will probably eventually find the good quality animals you want, but you are going to have to 'kiss a lot of frogs' to find your prince (buck)! Just put the bad ones in the freezer (cheap meat); don't try to breed from stock with health or breeding problems (no milk counts as a breeding problem in my book). As has been said, Breed only the best, and cull the rest.

Ah, and don't make pets out of livestock. That's a good way to go broke.

Kathleen