Weaning at Two Months Old

pracmag · #1 05/26/08, 01:05 PM

I have 6 babies from 3 does that are two months old and we have some people who want to buy them. This is my first year with babies and all are very healthy and happy. One of the buyers would like to take 2 of them next weekend so last night we separated the babies from the mothers by putting up a fence in the goat yard to start weaning them. The babies can still nuzzle their Mom's but cannot get to them to nurse. As you can imagine this morning was filled with wails and cries but later on they settled down. The babies are eating Alfalfa, COB and medicated lamb pellets. Drinking water and seem to be doing fine. I wanted to know if I am doing the right thing? Being my first time I am nervous about this. The babies are Nubian/Boar/Pigmy crosses. I am told it is okay to wean them at this age as long as they are eating well and they seem to be but I wanted some other opinions. Also when should I worm the babies for the first time or should I have done that already? I have safeguard. As for the Moms, I did not worm them when I was supposed to and found out when it was too late to do it when they were pregnant. I haven't wormed them yet either since they gave birth because I was worried about the babies drinking the milk. We are also drinking the milk so I'm not sure when to do this either or how long to not drink the milk. One last thing. When i sell the babies do I have to tag them for Scrabbies? The lady I bought my goats from did this, but I am not sure if we have to. So many questions..sorry this was so long. Any advice would be wonderful. Thanks.

DQ · #2 05/26/08, 02:55 PM

you should be way more worried about worms than the anthelmintics used to control them. the womers won't kill the goat and most have such a high margin of safety you can give 10-100 times the dose and it not show any affects whatsoever on the goats. wormers are specifically designed to target and be toxic to the worms and safe for the goats. just like salt will kill a slug but is harmless to us. it is extremely important that your momma goats be wormed ESPECIALLY after kidding. the mothering/kidding hormones give a jumpstart to the parasites and have been known to kill the animal within days to weeks. there are a few wormers that are potentially harmful in the early stages of pregnancy but there are plenty more that are perfectly safe. the babies should have been wormed near the time they started eating solid foods. weaning at two months is pretty common. it will take weeks if not months before the kids won't nurse if given the oppurtunity though. I would worm your goats asap with ivermectin or cydectin. safegaurd (fenbendazole) is likely not effective and since you haven't wormed them you should use something that packs some punch.

Zone · #3 05/26/08, 04:03 PM

Yup. Safeguard will not get enough of the nasties. Go with Ivermectin or Cydectin as was stated above.

If eating well, eight weeks is pretty normal for a lot of goat people. However you will see some breeders swear to the fact that they should not be weaned before twelve weeks, especially the doelings, and some even longer still. So go with what you feel and know is best for each individual animal/kid. Each can respond differently.

Hope this helps.

xoxoGOATSxoxo · #4 05/26/08, 04:50 PM

It should be okay, as long as they are healthy and eating (and you said they are) for the babies to quite cold turkey. The mommas mights have even started weaning them already without you noticing! They do that sometimes.

WORM THOSE GOATS!!!

Zone · #5 05/26/08, 04:52 PM

...And don't forget to milk the dams now.

Freeholder · #6 05/26/08, 05:41 PM

Wormer in the milk won't hurt the kids that are still nursing. You should dump the rest of the milk for three days (chickens can have it, as far as I know, but make sure your dogs don't get it, as some are sensitive to Ivermectin -- one of mine spent five days in hosp. in a coma after getting a little bit of Ivermectin paste wormer). After three days it's okay for human consumption again. Actually, after I wormed the doe I have on loan from a friend, I didn't withdraw the house milk, and we suffered no ill effects, nor did it make the milk taste bad, so that is really your call.

I've often weaned at eight weeks, esp. when we really needed the milk, and the babies seem to do just fine.

Kathleen

Shazza · #7 05/27/08, 08:18 AM

IMO 2 months is way too early to wean....cant the new owners keep feeding them.

Sweet Goats · #8 05/27/08, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazza

IMO 2 months is way too early to wean....cant the new owners keep feeding them.

WOW, as I was reading this, all I could think of was "no one is telling her that 2 months old is NOT old enough". Those babies need to still nurse. They are eating some of the stuff you are putting in front of them but they need mom still.I would never wean a baby before 10 weeks, and I normally go to at least 12 weeks. As they get older the will not nurse as much but they will nurse. OR have them bottle feed those babies.

ALSO, WHY, WHY WHY deworm a goat if you do not know if they have a worm problem in the first place?????????? I just do not get it.

I went to a clinic that was put on by CSU vet school. They said that goat breeders are killing their own herds. They are deworming goats just because they THINK they should. They are not finding out IF THEY NEED TO, or what type of worms they need to target. Because of this the worms are resistant and they are not killing off, so all that means is it will kill the goats eventually.

I am not by any means saying I am a expert at all. I do a fecal float on my goats and go from there. I have had goats for 9 + years and I have dewormed them 3 times EVER. When I take a sample to the vet just to double check my findings, they always shay how clean my goats are. If I would give them meds just because they kidded, or because I though they should have it, I would of wasted a awful lot of money.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO A FECAL ON THEM FIRST.

pracmag · #9 05/27/08, 05:18 PM

I want to Thank everyone so much for your opinions. It gives me some things to think about. The babies have been away from thrie mommas for 2 whole days now and are all doing well. They are eating and playing so I will just keep track of their weight and see how it goes. I am milking all 3 does now and trying to keep them in milk just in case. The new owners are all in this area and will be instructed to bring the babies back if there are any problems at all. I did deworm all the goats today, so that is taken care of. Oh...nobody answered my Scrabbies tag question. Anyone that could help me out with that would be great. Thanks again everybody for the advice and I will keep you posted.

Zone · #10 05/27/08, 07:16 PM

About the scrabbies tag... I am not sure if you HAVE to or not. But if you find that you do... you do not need to attach it to the ear. I believe you can either super glue it to the ear OR tape it to the paperwork that goes with the animal.

I am very limited in my knowledge of this area so get a second opinion please.

DQ · #11 05/27/08, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Goats

WOW, as I was reading this, all I could think of was "no one is telling her that 2 months old is NOT old enough". Those babies need to still nurse. They are eating some of the stuff you are putting in front of them but they need mom still.I would never wean a baby before 10 weeks, and I normally go to at least 12 weeks. As they get older the will not nurse as much but they will nurse. OR have them bottle feed those babies.

ALSO, WHY, WHY WHY deworm a goat if you do not know if they have a worm problem in the first place?????????? I just do not get it.

I went to a clinic that was put on by CSU vet school. They said that goat breeders are killing their own herds. They are deworming goats just because they THINK they should. They are not finding out IF THEY NEED TO, or what type of worms they need to target. Because of this the worms are resistant and they are not killing off, so all that means is it will kill the goats eventually.

I am not by any means saying I am a expert at all. I do a fecal float on my goats and go from there. I have had goats for 9 + years and I have dewormed them 3 times EVER. When I take a sample to the vet just to double check my findings, they always shay how clean my goats are. If I would give them meds just because they kidded, or because I though they should have it, I would of wasted a awful lot of money.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO A FECAL ON THEM FIRST.

two months old is extremely common in my experience especially with all the boer breeders around here. I personally do three months. I also fecal my goats before worming but you have to wonder how many people don't take care of the worming because they have to go to the trouble of doing a fecal...hence the advice to worm your does after kidding especially when it sounds as if a naive new owner is obvioulsy neglecting the issue and is misinformed about many aspects of it. I prefer to advise knowing the realities of the real world and the experience and apparent motivation level of the advisee and not neccessarily advise based on a utopian view unless it appears someone is ready to try to achieve it.

deetu · #12 05/27/08, 09:23 PM

I tag the kids that are going to slaughter. Does get tattooed with the Scrapie number.
Looks nicer and doesn't get caught on anything.

christie · #13 05/27/08, 10:56 PM

What is scrapie? Why the tags?

neehifarm · #14 05/28/08, 07:06 PM

I got the Scrapie thing down in my state (michigan)...Our state is just a mess right now, and our goofy Livestock Rules are no better.
For Scrapie Tags, first you have to Register with the Department of Agriculture...your 'premise' and then they send you a box full of tags with an applicator, and a card (the size of a Debit Card). The card has your new assigned 'Premise ID number'.
We, as breeders need to tag (or identify) each baby born on our premise, that leaves our premise, for purchase/trade.
Our Ag department sends you a record keeping booklet to mark down which animal you sold, what their individual Scrapie number is, and who you sold it to. They will NEVER look at this booklet, never ask for it, never review it UNLESS an animal, that was born on your property, HAS SCRAPIE.

Now, I am a pet breeder and produce Dwarf Pygmies. There is no way on this green earth, I will put a tag in ANY of my babies. They are unbelieveably huge.
The way that we have worked around the law with no problems, for over 8 years is this: At the time of purchase, I explain to the purchaser what Scrapie is. I explain also what the Dept of Ag would like me to do (affix the tag to the ear). At that time I tell the purchaser my feelings about affixing the tags. I offer them the option of taking the baby to the vet and have the numbers tatooed in their ear, OR I write up a bill of sale that states what farm the baby was born on (premise ID number), and also the number assigned to it. The original scrapie tag is taped to the paper.
However, I believe in order for a child to show in 4H, they do require the tags in the ear, or a tatoo...it must be marked.

Bearfootfarm · #15 05/28/08, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie

What is scrapie? Why the tags?

Scrapie is a brain disease that is similar to "Mad Cow" and affects sheep and goats. The tags are used so if an animal is found to have Scrapie, it can be traced back to it's flock

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/f...ahscrapie.html

**mygoat** · #16 05/29/08, 07:58 AM

Hmm, I didn't know you had to tag for scrapies in MI. I thought it was just in certain conditions. I refuse to tag any of my goats, though, so Oh, well. My dairies all get tattooed, so that's not a problem, and my Minis also get tattoed though I'm not sure they would 'recognize' the NMGA tattoo. Oh, well, I'm not worried about it.

But yes, I agree, 2 months is a little on the young side. Just because a buyer wants them earlier doesn't mean it's OK to wean them that early unless you HAVE TO, IE, the doe gets sick, gets mastitis, or the bucklings can achieve an erection and must be removed to prevent impregnation of the sisters/other does in the herd.

I bottle feed my kids for as long as 4 or 5 months, and allow my dam raised bucklings (either for breeding or meat) to be dam raised as long as they can't achieve and erection and even then I sometimes just move the dam out of the main pen with her buckling(s) so she can continue raising them till they're older.