Question re:selling bottle babies to newbies

crazygoatgal · #1 05/21/08, 02:51 PM

I have been asked, almost begged to sell 1 week old bottle babies to a family that has never owned goats(or livestock I think). They do seem like very nice people and were referred to by someone who bought from me a year ago. They seem willing to learn the care and maintenance required to properly raise goats. But I haven't seen a lot of action in the first week or so and they are only now ordering the book I recommended and as of yesterday, they still hadn't gone to this forum to check it out and begin their education. The daughter, who is the one who really wants them, seems very excited about this and no doubt they would be loved to . I will be providing the raw goat milk for the babies(2) until they are weaned, which I strongly recommended to them. How many of you have done this before and PLEASE share the pros, cons, and any and all recommendations you have. Don't hold back, I don't get offended too easily. Well actually I do, but I can deal with it for the sake of my goaties. Thanks in advance.

BethW · #2 05/21/08, 04:15 PM

Maybe it's me, but I'd be wary. If they really want goats, why do they have to have them immediately? Do they really want goats or do they just want baby goats that might not seem so cute as they get older? I also question their level of commitment if they want goats now but haven't done much research. Do they really know how much work goes into bottle feeding? And who's taking ultimate responsibility for the babies? The parents? Or the daughter who "is the one who really wants them"?

My gut says no.

Togg Lovers · #3 05/21/08, 04:24 PM

This is just my opinion:

Wanting to learn and putting the time and effort into it are 2 different things. I would want to see that they were taking action to ensure that the babies would have the best that was possible.

We had no experience at all with anything other than chickens when we got our first little doeling last year. (She was 8wks old) We got her from a breeder at the county fair. We had 3 days to get ready to take her home. Just to give you an idea of what we accomplished in little time: DH built a small 8x10 barn in 3 days for her. I read the entire Storey's Guide to Raising dairy goats in those same 3 days. We had feed, feeders, buckets, and hay racks along with finding a vet and getting some goatie first aid supplies. On top of that we spent 2 hrs each day at the fair with the doeling so she got used to us. I took notes everytime we talked with the breeder.

A month later we got another doeling and this spring we got our little buckling. He was a 1 wk old bottle baby. I must say that even with the experience with the other 2 we were at times lost. We have learned alot and still have more to learn.

When we have kids next year I would not sell to anyone that didn't show the dedication or commitment to doing it right that we did.

mpete · #4 05/21/08, 04:35 PM

Maybe offer to have the daughter come out and help with the chores several days a week, but my gut also says "watch out'. As nice as a sell is, I feel like I am responsible to give that animal a healthy life. A lot of people get caught up in the "cute factor", but in the end, they all grow up and there is cleaning of pens, sick animals, routines that cannot be interupted.... Babies are so sensitive. If they are truely dedicated, then they can pay a deposit for the goats, and you could offer to raise them for however long it takes to be self-sufficient (cost to them, ofcourse).

BethW · #5 05/21/08, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpete

If they are truely dedicated, then they can pay a deposit for the goats, and you could offer to raise them for however long it takes to be self-sufficient (cost to them, ofcourse).

That's what I as trying to say, but you said it better. If they're going to be good goat owners, then they'll do what's right for the goat, not what they want.

tioga12 · #6 05/21/08, 05:28 PM

I would definitely insist on them taking the goat milk from your farm for them. I sold two bottle babies at two weeks of age to a newbie, and they got holstein milk that was heated much warmer than they were used to having. After having them for a week both kids got enterotoxemia, and after a week of that, one died so a vet came out to treat the other one. I learned last week that the owner weaned the surviving kid at less than two months because she was "spending a fortune in milk." :-(

DQ · #7 05/21/08, 06:15 PM

here is my totally opposite opinion....possibly. what are your goals concerning the goats? if they are to just have and raise them mostly for pleasure and pets than be ultra picky about your buyers and plan on keeping kids you can't find homes for (that you are comfotable with)and ingore the following. if you want to sell goats to prevent loss or recieve profit. sell them. it is a hard fact that some of the animals you sell will not be cared for properly. give care sheets with the absolute basics to hopefully prevent really really stupid things like trying to wean them at 4 weeks or feeding them nothing but grain. don't get to complicated or in depth or people will ignore it all. keep it simple, covering basic feeding, fencing and worming. things that tend to kill the most goats. many people will not be stimulated to do major research until they have a little critter in front of them that they realize would break their heart if they died due to their neglect and aren't motivated to research a hypothetical purchase. that is just the way it is.

ozark_jewels · #8 05/21/08, 06:37 PM

If they are really willing to learn and you are going to be there to coach them(obviously you will be if your providing the milk till weaning), I see no problem with it. I have sold bottle babies to several newbies before and have had great success. One couple live just down the road and they bought a Lamancha doeling and a companion wether a few months ago. I give the kids their shots and worming on the same schedule as mine and they are learning to do all these things themselves. They are following my feeding and nutrition plan and the kids look great. These folks are elderly and have never had anything bigger than dogs and cats so its a big step for them. But they have been great and they absolutely dote on those goats. They also bought three Boer kids and two LGD's from me just last month. They got everything ready ahead of time and it all went without a hitch. But I am right there if they ever have a question or a need. It goes both ways with selling to newbies. They have to *really* want to do things right and the seller has to be willing to answer any and all questions and be a hands-on teacher.
So go with your gut feeling on this.....have them come and help you trim hooves/worm/milk.....if they are actually interested, you should be able to tell.
All the above I will do for breeding stock.....little $15.00 wethers are on their own after I sell them. I do the best I can to sell them to knowledgeable people, but I do not have the time to fool with making sure every wether has a good start after they leave my hands.
I also have a little paper written up on the care/housing/feeding of goats that I try to remember to hand out with every kid sold to someone not familiar with their care.

Wendy · #9 05/21/08, 10:36 PM

Quote:

here is my totally opposite opinion....possibly. what are your goals concerning the goats? if they are to just have and raise them mostly for pleasure and pets than be ultra picky about your buyers and plan on keeping kids you can't find homes for (that you are comfotable with)and ingore the following. if you want to sell goats to prevent loss or recieve profit. sell them. it is a hard fact that some of the animals you sell will not be cared for properly. give care sheets with the absolute basics to hopefully prevent really really stupid things like trying to wean them at 4 weeks or feeding them nothing but grain. don't get to complicated or in depth or people will ignore it all. keep it simple, covering basic feeding, fencing and worming. things that tend to kill the most goats. many people will not be stimulated to do major research until they have a little critter in front of them that they realize would break their heart if they died due to their neglect and aren't motivated to research a hypothetical purchase. that is just the way it is.

I agree. I guess I am not as soft hearted as most of you. Once the kids leave my farm, they are no longer my responsibility. I send bottles, care sheets, my phone#, e-mail, & a gallon of milk. The people know they can call or e-mail me if they have problems. Basic information should be enough without going into overkill. I can not spend my life worrying about every goat I sell. I can not keep them all either. For me it's a matter of keeping my numbers down to a size I can manage. If I get too picky with buyers, I will end up with a lot of unsold goats.

Patty0315 · #10 05/22/08, 06:50 AM

Lynn first off stop being so generous . You cannot be giving them goats milk for 12 weeks. At least not for free. Your health is not great and its a big commintment.

Tell them they can pick up the babies at 2-3 weeks if it makes you feel better. I sell bottle babies all the time. Cows milk is just fine just make sure they stick to the same temp. Make sure they know to worm and gice shots on time.

TAKE A DEPOSIT TO HOLD THEM. Also have them join dairygoatinfo.com alot better info. Goat keeping 101 is worth its weight in gold.

And why did you not tell me you had kids ?????? And were are my pictures ??????????

Patty

Kittikity · #11 05/22/08, 07:20 AM

I say have the girl come do some chores.. See if she really wants this or its just the cute factor.. Too many people consider an animal disposable once the cute and/or novelty wears off.. As a former dog groomer I've seen it way too many times and it saddens me.. That's a living creature..

There are many very good suggestions here.. The fact that these people are lacking on the research when you've told them exactly what to do tells me something..

ozark_jewels · #12 05/22/08, 08:40 AM

Yes, don't *give* them milk till weaning!! Milk isn't cheap and they need to know the price of raising kids. Sell it to them for animal price or have them raise them on cows milk. I reccomend healthy raw cows milk to my buyers if they can get it and if they can't, I reccomend whole cows milk from the store. Anything is better than replacer and I won't sell doelings to un-experienced people who intend to raise kids on replacer.
It may seem overkill to some people the way I am there for my newbie buyers *if* I can be(distance is a killer. Long-distance advice is given by phone or e-mail and they have to give all shots and worming themselves), but I get more repeat and reccomended customers that way than any other. People like to know you are only a phone call away if they have trouble. And I get more satisfaction from seeing kids that I sold go on to be productive, well-grown animals than most can imagine.
And another thing......even if its the fault of buyer, if the kids you sell them end up being stunted, poorly or even dead, they will *still* carry your name, the folks will still tell people they bought the kids from you......so in the end, your ahead in your reputation if you see your kids off to a good start.
Not saying you always can help the buyers......some buyers just won't take advice and those kind are on their own.

Cathy · #13 05/22/08, 08:44 AM

I am a newbie who just purchased 2 kids one doe at 2wks (her mother rejected her) and a wether who was 5wks. All I know is without the training and guidance of the wonderful woman I purchased the goats from and the help of this site I would have been lost. You are also very generous offering to give them the milk. I am driving 30min away once a week to purchase goat milk for them. I have been planing to get goats for a year now and I believe when you are serious about raising an animal you will take the time to learn all you can. IMO I agree with having them come help you with the chores so they can learn. I hope this helps.

Cathy

CookingPam777 · #14 05/22/08, 10:28 AM

I wouldn't if you feel its just a I want temporary cuteness thing. I would have way to many animals if I went by cuteness. And really cuteness can get you into trouble. Had I known I perferr Saanens I would have never bought my buck and now love him to death but am stuck with a pet kinda. I didn't know much about goats when I bought him thats why I ended up with him.

goatkid · #15 05/22/08, 04:56 PM

In 2000, I started out as a newbie goat owner with little bottle babies. I didn't know about any goat forums then. In fact, I didn't even own a computer. Fortunately, the woman who sold them to me taught me how to raise them and was there for me if I had any questions/problems. Actually, I worked for her on her goat dairy so I learned alot about goats. So, I'd say, it you're selling bottle kids to a first time goat owner, be available to mentor them. An option for you may be to barter with them for goat milk in exchange for their help with your goats.

mary,tx · #16 05/22/08, 05:25 PM

God gave me children when I knew nothing substantive about raising them and didn't buy the books. I don't have an issue with selling goats to someone who wants to buy them. I didn't know anything about goats when I brought mine home, either. Forgive me for saying it sounds excessive to expect them to "go to the forum" to learn before taking home a goat kid. Bottling's not that hard. They'll learn as they go like the rest of us did.
mary

crazygoatgal · #17 05/22/08, 07:46 PM

Thanks to all of you for the wonderful advice and I am going to ingest it all and use much of it. You guys are great!!! Just to add a few things, I wish I could say I am the generous person Patty thinks I am. I am going to sell them milk at $5.00 a gallon and they agreed to that. I also tried to offer an age appropriate job for the daughter to the mom and even said that whatever money she would have earned I would put toward the purchase price and that way we both win. I never got a clear answer. I will bring it up again, but not for cost reduction anymore. More of an insistance so that she and the family can learn some basics and the goats don't have to pay for the humans ignorance. They have good housing for them, but I told them I will be delivering them so that I can see the area where they will be living for myself. I also made them aware that I will need a $100.00 deposit. By the way PATTY0315--- I don't have babies yet. These are unborn babies I am referring to, you dork!!

I would never deny you the joy of seeing my beautiful babies. Addictive, aren't they?

mary,tx · #18 05/22/08, 08:57 PM

I'm not surprised you didn't get a clear answer when all this is about hypothetical babies, which you will not even sell without first inspecting the buyers premises. I wouldn't buy from someone who acted that way to me.
mary

Zone · #19 05/22/08, 09:02 PM

Everyone of us was a newbie at one point in time. Don't expect too much.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #20 05/23/08, 12:07 AM

I think it's pretty simple. You were new once also. I remember vividly my horrible start in dairy goats, it's why I do forums. Be a super mentor. I have a from brith to kidding on goatkeeping101 on dairygoatinfo.com tweak the info and give it out. Some people are the fly by the seat of their pants kind of learners, other people want everything written out and barely get home with their babies and are on the phone asking me more questions. Some buy from others and ask me questions

So be the super mentor you wish you had, and let them know they can count on you. But do remember it is their goats when you take their money. Vicki