Flabby udder=no milk?

DixyDoodle · #1 05/14/08, 07:23 PM

My little black doe's udder never did get very thick or "tight", and it hasn't changed since she gave birth a few days ago. While she does actually have a bag, it's very floppy and "squeezable". Does this mean she doesn't have much milk in there? She is nursing triplets.

The thing is, while the kids seem ok size-wise, they are still a bit smaller than I would expect (because they were smaller to start with maybe?). They also seem to be following her a lot more than the other kids do to their mothers. Is it possible that they aren't getting enough milk? I don't want to let it go until they are thin or malnourished.

I have tried to get a little milk out of her teats, didn't manage, but honestly, hers are so small (way less thick than a pencil) I'm not sure if I would be able to get any even if there was some.

So.....if I feel that while the kids may be getting some milk, they may not be getting enough. Would it be possible to supplement? I really don't relish the thought of full-time bottle feeding, but maybe I could just give them a bottle a day? I can get goat kid replacement at the vet's. I thought this might also give mom a chance to recoup from the delivery as she is very thin. BUT would part-time bottle feeding work? Or would it cause confusion for the kids?

I have put the doe back in with the other goats, hoping that now that she can free-graze, it will get her back into conditon.

Any ideas would be appreciated!

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #2 05/14/08, 07:25 PM

If they are pooping and peeing and not trying to nurse 24/7, are quiet and sleeping than they are full. I would be worried though because if she is only giving as much milk as infants need, she won't have anywhere near enough milk for older kids. I would take one of the kids off and bottle it or foster it to another doe. Vicki

DixyDoodle · #3 05/14/08, 07:49 PM

Vicki, how do you get a doe to take another doe's kid? I thought about that also, the other does are full, but how hard is it to convince the doe? And does it take long to get the kid to go to the "new" mom?

DixyDoodle · #4 05/15/08, 04:20 AM

I did some checking last night about my doe's symptoms, I'm thinking it could be ketosis. From what I understand, this is pretty common with does that are carrying triplets. I'm going to keep her on just hay, alf pellets, a bit of grain, and what the fiasco site recommended for ketosis: a bit of corn syrup with molasses.

What do you all think about this: the fiasco site also said to NOT use goat kid formula but instead, cow's milk with corn syrup. I thought cow's milk was not overly great for goats and would cause scours?

I'm also going to try and find some probios.

susanne · #5 05/15/08, 07:13 AM

i doubt your doe has ketosis. you will find this condition in does that are overweight to begin with and then start to loose weight rapidly because for some reason not eating enough.if there is metabolic disease in your doe, it would be hypocalcemia because of the three kids nursing.
i would take her temperature and go from there. how do the kids look like? if they get enough milk, they will look plump and do not have sunken in sides.
did you worm your doe pre breeding and after kidding?
to help with her weight, i would up her grain ratio and add Boss. some people seem to have success with beet pulp. it is calcium rich and high calorie.
i always feed store bought cows milk if i need to supplement. no scours and have not lost one kid yet.

Shazza · #6 05/15/08, 08:10 AM

If your doe had ketosis she would be much sicker than she is....one of my first goats had ketosis and no matter what we did she didnt get better and died, curled up in her sleep. Ketosis gives the goat a sweet smelling breath...check your does breath.

DixyDoodle · #7 05/15/08, 11:18 AM

Shazza, yes, you are right, I don't think it's ketosis now either. I did more checking on the symptoms. No sweet breath or anything. She does seem a little "fatter" than yesterday. Sides are not quite as sunken. She was wormed, also.

I also managed to get a little milk out of her (with my thumb and forefinger, LOL, golly her teats are SO small, even for a mini!) so I know there is some milk at least.

Do you think I could supplement with a bottle feeding or two, to give her a helping hand? Or would this confuse the kids, if they are feeding from both? Or should I just maybe pull one kid off for good and feed it strictly bottle?

Susanne, do you add anything to the cow's milk? Such as corn syrup (like the fiasco site recommends)?

Oh, and Beauty is eating just fine. She does lay down a fair bit, but does walk around...particularly to the feed pan! She is getting hay, grain (which I sneak to her when the other goats are outside), maybe 1/4 cup of horse crunch (a VERY bland horse concentrate, nothing in there that is harmful to goats) and alf pellets. It seems to be helping.

susanne · #8 05/15/08, 11:36 AM

i don't add anything to it. my first year i raised the entire kid crop on cows milk. i have no idea what the corn syrup should do?
it'll be not easy to start feeding bottle if they are used to their dam, and gets more difficult the longer they stay on the dam. i would get one off and feed strictly on bottle.

DixyDoodle · #9 05/15/08, 06:37 PM

I took each kid in turn and tried them on the bottle. The two agoutis got the hang of it very fast, and drank pretty greedily (in my opinion, anyhow). The white doe didn't seem very interested but drank a bit I squirted in. One of the agoutis went back for a quick nip from the mom, and then went and layed down. They seem pretty content.

The doe is definitely looking improved, also.

She is less thin than she was eariler today even, I think. She still has a bit of milk, but also still a very flabby udder.

I think I will just try to feed the smallest of the kids, and see if maybe Beauty will perk up more if there is one less to drain her.