how old should a buckling be to evaluate him for herdsire status

[cathleenc]

when does a buckling show his potential for herdsire status? When does confirmation get confirmed?

I understand that potential is related greatly to genetics. Assuming great genetics, then at what age do you make the decision to keep a buckling or not keep a buckling?

ty
Cathy

[jordan]

That's all going to depend on the individual animal and his genetics. A buck takes awhile to mature (up to 3 yrs or so). On the otherhand, I've looked at kids at 2 weeks old and just "known". Look at the legs, top line, depth, width, etc. If he's posty, with a dippy chine and no extension to the brisket, chances are that won't change much. Width and depth can over time.

Bottom line though, it's still has to go back to the udder genetics. You have to look just as closely at the sire's dam, grand dam, sisters, etc. as you do the does.
Don't keep him because he's "cute" and don't sell him intact for that reason either. IMO there's way too many intact bucks out there who never should have been anything but dinner.

I've seen more national champion and finished champion bucks than I like to think about (at least with ND's) who have thrown nothing but garbage in the udder department and I've seen butt ugly bucks who have thrown some fabulous offspring.
Good luck.

[Goatguy]

You won't know a lot for quite a while, but you definitely can take into account the buck's growth rate. Watch him compared to other goat kids and see if he is growing faster or slower, how many lbs./week. Of course this is really only important if you are raising a herd for meat production...

[AnnaS]

It's difficult to predict daughter quality based on a baby buck's looks. I want to see generations of desirable traits on both sides of his pedigree, but I like to see the buckling display the characteristics I want his daughters to have.

On the other hand, some excellent type sires have been butt-ugly themselves- Sasin in Alpines comes to mind. But as a rule, the best bucks come from a long line of excellent does and bucks.

I had a few suggestions from a linear appraiser. He likes bucklings to be deep in the chest at birth, so deep that you can't span his chest with your hand. The appraiser also wanted to see a rump that was straight, not V shaped, from the points of the hips to the top of the rump as viewed from above.

Width is another thing that doesn't change. Bucklings (and doelings) should look "square" from front and back and their feet should track straight when they run. Swinging the hooves in or out is not desirable.

Shoulders are unpredictable, and can come in and out in a kid, especially a dam-raised one (at least in my herd).

Another consideration is herd strengths, weaknesses, and goals. A buck with generations of show type and 2000 lbs of milk would be of little interest to a commercial herd, but priceless to a family show herd. A heavy boned, wide buck might be unattractive, but desirable to a herd of fine boned, narrow dairy does.

The best question to ask yourself- if 100% of your does were exact clones of the buck's mother and grandmothers, would you be happier with your herd?

[cathleenc]

Originally Posted by AnnaS

The best question to ask yourself- if 100% of your does were exact clones of the buck's mother and grandmothers, would you be happier with your herd?

omg, YES.

I can't claim to have a herd - I have and will keep 2 does. One is a saanen x X and the other a Toggenberg x saanen x X. The saanen did not take this season but was sold to me as an excellent milker. The Tog is a decent milker - 7 lbs/day at 3 months pp. When I got her she was quite underfed, and wormy - I've had pretty icky hay this year. I can't help but hope with better conditioning and feed the Tog will easily pace herself at 1 gallon a day next year.

The Tog has a very functional udder as appraised by my neighbor, the owner of a sizable reputable goat dairy. Not show quality - but high and well balanced. The Tog is long and 'very very dairy' looking.

The buck's dam has an udder to dream about and nice, fat teats. If I have any 'dream requests' for offspring it would be better teats and creamier milk. The buck's dam averages 11-12 lb/day at another local goat dairy.

thanks!
Cathy

[Jillis]

Interesting that this question should show up right now.

I have a mini-Alpine buckling that I have about decided I am going to keep to use as a buck.

His sire throws the most perfect babies! Their conformation is just beautiful, and they have great personalities. And his mother is one of my best milkers. She is an Alpine from a herd of registered show stock. The sire is a Nigerian Dwarf buck from a line of GC, RGC, Champions in the milk pail, too.

Of all the goats I milk, the buckling's mother has the nicest udder. Beautifull shaped, nicely attached and the teats are just perfect. I have two goats that give more milk than she does (althought she does give a lot above average) but their teats are not easy. One gives a huge amount of milk, but her teats are placed a little on the outer aspect and are a bit smaller. The other gives a lot of milk but has balloony teats and a hugely divided pendulation of the two sections of the udder.
I just really like milking his mom.

So I may keep him. He is just a beautiful, perfect little boy!

I hate to sell his sire, as he throws such beautiful babies, lots of girls, too. But after a while, you need the genetic variety.

Jill~