is it possible to change the dynamics of a herd

dixiegal62 · #1 04/30/08, 11:23 PM

Could you say move the queen(s) away from the herd so that you could intruduce new members and keep her away long enough so that she would no longer be the queen when she was brought back into the herd?

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #2 04/30/08, 11:41 PM

No, but what you can do is introduce newcommers to the second in command or someone else closer to their size and age to buddy up with after quaranteen. Then introduce the two of them after they have been alone for a period of time. Herd Queens rarely loose their place unless ill, very bred or loss of horns. Herd Queens are queens for their ability to beat the crap out of lower does, you will never take that away from her, it's a good job, the warmest place to sleep, your first pick of hay, of clean water....even in a new herd your Queen would take on immediatly the new Queen for their place, loosing only if the other doe is horned or larger, or older and knows how to fight better. The second in command is nearly always a daughter out of the older doe, showing how much temperment is inherited in goats. It's why, referencing another thread today, I put down Queens when older, nothing sadder than having a yearling doe running over you when at one time you were the boss. Vicki

dixiegal62 · #3 04/30/08, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

No, but what you can do is introduce newcommers to the second in command or someone else closer to their size and age to buddy up with after quaranteen. Then introduce the two of them after they have been alone for a period of time. Herd Queens rarely loose their place unless ill, very bred or loss of horns. Herd Queens are queens for their ability to beat the crap out of lower does, you will never take that away from her, it's a good job, the warmest place to sleep, your first pick of hay, of clean water....even in a new herd your Queen would take on immediatly the new Queen for their place, loosing only if the other doe is horned or larger, or older and knows how to fight better. The second in command is nearly always a daughter out of the older doe, showing how much temperment is inherited in goats. It's why, referencing another thread today, I put down Queens when older, nothing sadder than having a yearling doe running over you when at one time you were the boss. Vicki

Vicki, thanks... we did try taking a established doe out of the herd and putting her in with our tamer goats to help tame her, after a time we tried to put her and the other 3 goats in with the herd and none where accepted and the one we had taken out was always being attacked so we removed them again. Now Im at a loss of how to get my bottle babies and the other 3 goats into the herd without bloodshed.

KSALguy · #4 05/01/08, 09:44 AM

any time you remove an animal from the very structured order of the herd, a new pecking order is made, and depending on what kind of temprament your animals have you may upset the ballance compleatly,

i would say never remove the queen (or an established doe) for very long at all, if ever, if you want to give the new goats a friend from the heard to get to know before the introduction to the herd choose one a few steps down the ladder, and then put them all in at once,

there is GOING to be head butting and bullying no matter how you do it, thats just how they do their society, you cant stop it compleatly, but you can screw it up by moveing key players around to much,

if you want them all in one herd put them all back in and let them sort it out,

Shazza · #5 05/01/08, 10:22 AM

I just lost my queen as two goatlings decided to challenge her and she lost....I hate how they have to beat eachother up.

CountryHaven · #6 05/01/08, 11:19 AM

This is kind of funny (not in the haha way, but in the wow, see it never worked that way here really type of way) maybe I'm just lucky. I have several 'sides' to my farm. The 'big barn' side, the 'little old barn' side, and the 'run in's' sides... I use each area for different purposes, and it means taking animals out, putting them back in, doing this and that, and they always adjust pretty easily to it. I have a herd 'queen' (polly) who is queen of whatever area I put her in, I have a second in command (not her daughter, but Alex, actaully a bigger doe than polly, just doesn't fit quite as well,lol) and the list goes down the line, but no matter what the area, they posture a bit, rear up occassionally and butt for a couple minutes, then pretty much say 'okay, now we can go about our business' and all is calmn. I've never had big 'wars', or problems moving animals around for my purposes.

Yeah, I guess I'm lucky. I think I'll keep it that way. LOL

CountryHaven · #7 05/01/08, 11:23 AM

LOL I'm sorry to come back in on this, but I just had a thought, and honestly I've never really given it much thought, but when you come down to it, I think the above might be because I'M the herd queen,... nobody better mess with me and the way I want things done.

I said above I don't have big wars, and that's true... to a point, but like, okay, I have a couple that are really rough with babies right when I re-introduce them and moms to the herd, mom's do defend them, but they dn't have to much, cause danged if I'll put up with that, anyone gets overly pushy and I grab them, and they go into 'isolation' for the day in a stall... Maybe they just all know that if they don't behave, they get put in 'time out'. No one wants that. HAHAHAHAA

DON'T MESS WITH MAMA. heehee, ( I can hear them whispering that now.)