questions....

mamajohnson · #1 04/25/08, 02:44 PM

ok, sorta a CAE question, maybe not....

One of my girls has her right front knee very swollen, left front sorta swollen.
Otherwise she is doing great, staying up with the herd, browsing/eating/milking well, taking care of her babies and just being her sweet little self.
I have a CAE test scheduled for her next week (had to educate the vet on what it was first )
But--- what I am wondering -- in searching old posts and information on CAE, I keep seeing stuff about, "maybe that isn't what it is after all" ok, so, maybe she stepped in a hole, maybe not, but what else could it be?
looking for opinions, facts, suppositions, whatever you have!

Vicki, Emily, ya'll please chime in too!

I have researched myself silly, and keeping coming back to CAE, and that is the only thing I can find about swollen knees.
She has nothing else going on with her that I can find. No temp, no runny nose, nothing.

mamajohnson · #2 04/25/08, 11:42 PM

*bump*
still looking for input on this one!

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #3 04/26/08, 12:09 AM

Test her. Send blood to WSU, info on doing this is on our forum dairygoatinfo.com in goatkeeping101. Sure it could be mycoplasma. Sure she could have fell and crashed down on her knees (I did this earlier this year falling over my grandsons wagon in the milkroom

yep I had knees that looked like I had CAE to

and I walked for awhile like I did!

But just test, yes it is classic symptoms. Yearlings show symptoms as they come into heat their first times. Adults show sypmtoms after stress, moving to a new home, kidding. Sorry this is happening to you, but most new folks who test for the first time find out more than half their herd is positive. Vicki

mamajohnson · #4 04/26/08, 12:21 AM

Thnx Vicki.
I am bracing for it to be positive. I should have the test back next week. I will learn how to draw blood on the girls, so I can test them all if it is positive.

Can you tell me about the mycoplasma? I saw that on an older post and did some searching, came up with nothing. Or what I found didn't make goat sense to me...

Ouch on falling on your knees! I know that hurt! I try not to fall if I can help it, for that very reason!

I knew I should have paid closer attention to these things, but just wanted to start getting milk. I have had this girl for a year now, she just now is a First Freshener and gave me 2 beautiful little girls. I guess sometimes I get in a hurry and don't do all I should.

In talking with DH on all this, the end opinion is that I will not be able to sell any of my goats, because I just couldn't do that with a positive CAE. So I will have to be more selective on who gets bred and when. Or just resolve to butcher all the offspring.

Sorta messed up my plans. But, I will get through it.
Thnx again for your help.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #5 04/26/08, 10:24 PM

And you can quaranteen the positive does, hand breed them, lutelyse them so you are there for the kidding and glean kids, just sell the positive milk and don't use it on the kids. It's how our negative herds started back in the 80's and 90's!

Mycoplasma can cause mastitis, pnemonia and swollen knees and alot of the symptoms mimic CAE. I bet there were alot of does back in the 80's put down who were in fact mycoplasma positive and not CAE positive...not that the tests are the same, but that when you see a swollen knee it simply freaks you out and it was much more of a witch hunt back then. It was difficult keeping 2 herds.

Good luck with this, sadly it is an all too common way alot of people start because someone didn't test. Vicki

mpete · #6 04/26/08, 11:12 PM

The offspring will not be positive if you keep them away from the dam... I think that is what I have read, but then you have to quarantine the positive away from the negative.
I am sorry for your situation. I do wish you a negative test... I know how it is when you're waiting for that to come in. Drawing the blood is simple if you are shown by someone who knows how to do it. My first attempt was a miserable failure after I was told how, but when I was shown, I was able to do it the first stick. If you have to shave a neck to get it done, then don't be shy. I had to shave a neck for the lady who did mine and she was well experienced. Keep us posted...

mamajohnson · #7 04/27/08, 04:49 PM

I am taking my girl with me when I take a dog for spaying to the vet Tuesday, the blood draw will be done then, and I intend to be shown how when they do it.
This morning her knees seemed to look better than over the last week, so I am happy for her in that.
The frustrating thing is, I was going to dam raise & milk, so I didn't have to be so hands on. That may go out the window.
If her test is positive I plan on testing all my girls, and all the little ones. I have a new nubian buckling I was going to have for herd sire, if any of the girls are positive I don't think I will breed him with them. (at least that is what I am thinking now.) I guess if any of the girls are positive I need to test my present buck dont I?
Isn't this transmitted sorta like an STD? meaning, my buck can get it from the girls, then transmit it to all the other does?

I promise I read lots of stuff about it, sometimes it just seems vague.

Thnx again for the input. They tell me I should have the results by friday or monday after the test.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #8 04/28/08, 02:38 PM

Isn't this transmitted sorta like an STD?
...............
No.

They can transmit CAE vai semen in the lab, but I don't know of anyone who has had a buck turn positive from breeding positive does. My buck Eric tested negative still at 9 after having bred positive does his whole life, in some instances pen breeding them before I knew better. So I don't believe, like alot of things, that what is written in a book or paper necessarily transfers to real life on the farm.

And it's fine to test the one symptomatic doe, but why would you not test the whole herd? The buck himself could be positive. There are more does who are positive for CAE who have no symptoms ever than those who did. We rarely saw symptoms of CAE we mostly just had positive does. Now the ones who were, were horrible...just a good reminder of how awful the disease was and why I was doing all the work to get rid of it. Vicki

mamajohnson · #9 04/28/08, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

Isn't this transmitted sorta like an STD?
...............
No.

They can transmit CAE vai semen in the lab, but I don't know of anyone who has had a buck turn positive from breeding positive does. My buck Eric tested negative still at 9 after having bred positive does his whole life, in some instances pen breeding them before I knew better. So I don't believe, like alot of things, that what is written in a book or paper necessarily transfers to real life on the farm.

And it's fine to test the one symptomatic doe, but why would you not test the whole herd? The buck himself could be positive. There are more does who are positive for CAE who have no symptoms ever than those who did. We rarely saw symptoms of CAE we mostly just had positive does. Now the ones who were, were horrible...just a good reminder of how awful the disease was and why I was doing all the work to get rid of it. Vicki

I guess I am really planning on testing the whole herd anyway, I just wanted to see how to draw the blood and get her test done. Then maybe I can do all the other blood draws myself. The blood test is $45, but the "visit" to do the blood draw (my taking the goat) is another $35. So, that x 16 would be a little steep. But, I can do several if I do the blood draws. (I am quiet proficient drawing blood on people, just need to see how on goats)

It is good to know that my buck isn't necessarily going to be a transmitter, unless he is positive.

I appreciate your acknowledging thats books are not always in line with real life. I have found that happen more than once.

LomahAcres · #10 04/28/08, 03:57 PM

That's steep for 1 goat. Blood drawing is pretty easy to do yourself. Does your vet test it himself or ship it off to a lab? We pay $13 in testing for the first goat and $8.00 for each additional goat, to do it ourselves.

Here's a pretty good pictorial :

http://goatconnection.com/articles/p...icle_151.shtml

Hope all goes well,

A@VT · #11 04/28/08, 04:02 PM

45 dollars for the test seems really high I sent blood samples to pan american vet labs the CAE tests there are 6 dollars each, they are even in your state so the shipping would be cheap also. Is there a reason that you choose the 45$ test or is that just the one you found? Good luck with it all, it is hard to get positive test results back and deal with it but I think it is better and easier in the long run to deal with it now instead of later when they are sick and they have passed it on to other goats.
P.S. Drawing blood is pretty easy you just have to make the jump and try.

susanne · #12 04/28/08, 04:49 PM

if you send blood samples to biotracking, it will only cost $4 per sample. they use the same test as WADDL is using.

yes, a buck can get infected when breeding positive does because of how he is doing courtship. if you hand bred and don't let him sniff the vulva from positive doe, he will be fine. unless she has a vaginal infection and he has an injury on his P....

there are obviously bucks that had run with positives and never got infected (or only didn't show on test) this does not mean it isn't possible.
so, why chance it?

kidsngarden · #13 04/28/08, 05:00 PM

I started out with several backyard milkers, one was CAE positive. she showed no symptoms. We put her down last fall as that is the only responsible way to cull a positive goat...

But you don't have to cull her just yet if you bottle raise on pasturized negative does milk. but if she has symptoms, I don't know how long she will be comfortable? I haven't had experience with that.

Test every goat every year. My goal is to only dam raise goats for the freezer. You get much better behaved goats if you bottle raise that are far more marketable. AND you get much more milk for yourself. I'm just in my first year of bottle babies and oh boy, it is a lot of work - can't wait for my Lambar to come! I think in the end the results will be worth it.

As Vicki has said the only way to keep and get CAE free is to test every goat every year, cull who you can, and raise the kids on prevention.

mamajohnson · #14 04/28/08, 08:53 PM

well, I thought $45 was steep too, but sorta felt like I didn't know which way to go. There are only 2 vets in the area, one I don't know, and this one has been great for my dogs. He didn't even know what CAE is, so we had an education session.

I think once I know how to draw blood I can send it in myself and then do a more thorough job. Thnx for all the information, I sorta have direction now.

ET1 SS · #15 04/28/08, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamajohnson

well, I thought $45 was steep too, but sorta felt like I didn't know which way to go. There are only 2 vets in the area, one I don't know, and this one has been great for my dogs. He didn't even know what CAE is, so we had an education session.

I think once I know how to draw blood I can send it in myself and then do a more thorough job. Thnx for all the information, I sorta have direction now.

At least he is willing to deal with goats.

We have very few vets and none of them will attend the auctions. None of them that I am aware of willingly handle goats. Only if you are already a 'good' horse customer, will they do anything with a goat.

I have spoken with four goat dairies and three professional goat brokers, so far they have each had to learn to diagnose goat diseases from the textbook symptoms.