new goats and kid's death

gina kay · #1 04/16/08, 10:26 PM

I hadn't been able to log on in awhile but sure wish I could have. Last month we bought 7 Boer females. Four does, one new kid (3 weeks old), and a pair of twins about 2 mos old. The kids weren't bottle-fed but the mamas were with them. The 3 week old ("Valentine"-born on valentine's day) would try to nurse but doe wouldn't let her so I would attempt to bottle feed her but she'd chew a hole in the nipple (no wonder doe rejected her!). She'd eat grain, hay, and youpon leaves but I'd still give her a large syringe of replacer so she'd have the nutrients. Her mama had bottle-neck and another developed scours overnight so I called the previous owners since it was on a weekend (sunday before last). I was on my way out of town but dh was here when they came by and wormed all the goats and gave a few scour medicine. When I came home that tuesday evening I found "valentine" was dead (hadn't been dead long since the pet sitter said she was fine that morning). Dh is a truck driver so he is goe all week so had a friend come twice a day until I got home. The one with scours is doing great. Does the bottle neck look go away after awhile after deworming. They have a round bale of hay, gets grain once a day, and has a mineral block. Could the death be from the deworming? Or maybe from possiblity not getting enough water (had an ice chest full of water but left a bucket in the stall for water for her since she was so short but sitter didn't see it). She also had lice but I had Sevin dusted her. I don't think I'll let that doe have another unless I plan on bottle-feeding it. Any advice would be appreciated.

cjg24 · #2 04/16/08, 10:56 PM

I am sorry for your loss. I know how it hurts to loose an animal you cared for. I have never seen bottle-jaw or bottle neck. I hate getting new animals - seems they are always sick when you get them.

I don't bottle feed unless I absolutely have not other choice. I work long days and can't handle the demands of a baby. What I do it force the mother to feed the baby. Usually it only takes a few times and I have her doing it. I hold the horns with one hand, push the mama against the stall wall, hold her with the back of my legs and weight on her, and use my other hand to shove that baby into the udder. The first couple times is a battle and after that, I just come near them and they stand and let the baby feed. Eventually, they feed without me.
Good luck.

Alice In TX/MO · #3 04/17/08, 06:49 AM

Replacer is not good. It kills more goat babies than it saves, I think.

If your life style requires you and hubby to travel so much, it might be a good idea to wait on goats until there's a change.

fishhead · #4 04/17/08, 06:53 AM

I would replace the mineral block with loose goat minerals (1,000+ copper).

DQ · #5 04/17/08, 08:08 AM

fyi I don't know how much you are able to observe them but at three weeks the mommas don't let them nurse whenever. 9 x out of ten when the babies run to them to nurse the mommas won't let them. then at some point the will call them and stand to let the babies nurse. in my expereince the babies would nurse non stop if the does allowed. I'm not saying that is the case with yours but it might be. if you have bottle jaw and scouring you have quite a few problems going on. and it is impossible to tell from what with out a post mortem. the kid could have died from coccidoses or from not getting fluids (as you suggested) or from the replacer/bloat etc....

as another poster suggested mineral blocks are not adequate for goats they need a loose mineral. if they are not getting the minerals they need they will be more suceptable to everything.

the bottle jaw should go a way fairly quickly. you did not mention what they were wormed with. some wormers are not effective anymore. if there is still bottle jaw your does life is still on the line and you need to worm with something effective very quickly such as cydectin.

"scour medicine" isn't enough info. was this an antibacterial or just pepto bismol? an antibacterial will help treat instestinal infection such as e. coli. pepto will just cover the symptoms.

I hope some of this helps you figure out what to do.

gina kay · #6 04/17/08, 08:31 AM

Cindy, I had tried forcing the doe to take her kid by pushing her into a corner and holding her by her horns but she kept trying to step out of the hold and I was afraid she'd step on the kid. That kid had sharp enough teeth to chew holes in the nipple so I figured she was chewing on her mama. I didn't know they had teeth at 3 weeks. Rose, I now realize what I wasn't missing when I couldn't log on to this site. All the judgmental people! Before judging find out the facts! Yes, my husband is a truck driver and is home only on the weekends BUT I am home 24/7/average of 362 days a year. This was a case of a penpal I've had for 3 years from Canada was going to Dallas (5 hr drive from here) to see other friends and I had already agreed to go up there to meet her and her daughter for the first time. Everything was fine around here until right before I left and I already had the rental car so I couldn't back out. The previous owners made it sound like they just needed to be wormed. I told dh that it sounds like I can't ever leave the farm for even one day and he agreed. Now you just validated that. I go to Huston (60 miles away) to see my family maybe once every six months and only for the day since I hate leaving the animals. But this time I felt I really needed to get away if only for 2 days. I left that sunday morning but dh was here until that evening and I got back that tuesday evening. The last time I went out of town was to see my dd, sil, dgd and new dgs last September. and before that it had been two years when I went on week long cruise. Just this morning I went out to feed everyone and found a hen that died as I looked on (was fine yesterday but was dragging a leg so I had put her in a cage) and a new kitten with it's head bit off. All that happened while I was here. But now I'm made to feel guilty for leaving and it's worked.

Alice In TX/MO · #7 04/17/08, 08:45 AM

I didn't mean to sound judgmental. Just reading what you posted and commenting that it sounded like you have more on your plate than you can deal with. I totally understand. I am in this situation, too.

Goats are VERY time consuming, and I check on mine A LOT. I'm assuming that most people do. If hubby is gone, like mine is, then it all falls to me, and if I have to go, then the goats are at risk.

If you will read my other post again without defensiveness, you will see that there are no derogatory overtones. Just a thought.

thaiblue12 · #8 04/17/08, 09:52 AM

Do not beat yourself up because you took a small break. We all need one at times and that did not kill any of your animals. I last year took my daughter away for 3 days and 2 nights. I left my husband in charge and trust me it was not restful for me. Yes he knew if I came home to anything bad I would kill him but I still worried. Thankfully my daughter had a great time and that was what matter and all the animals inside and out were fine.
I would guess milk replacer or too much grain might have caused bloat and maybe your petsitter did not know it. A lady I know got herself 4 goats she has no experience with and really overfed these boys with milk replacer and gave them grain as well and she lost one to bloat/entero.
Or maybe the doeling had something wrong with her from the start and she was going to die no matter if you took a mini-vacation or not. I am sorry you lost your doeling but do not blame yourself for going away for a few days.

Minelson · #9 04/17/08, 06:33 PM

I'm so sorry for the loss of your goat, chicken and kitten. I know it's hard and all the loss on the farms make me wonder if I'm cut out for it. I feel the same way about ever leaving and I'm borderline agoraphobic over it. I guess I just have to take it one day at a time, one incident at a time, and keep my head from horrifying everything and waiting for the next tragedy.