my doe has such yucky poo!

[meleahbee]

I've had my kinder doe for 3 weeks now. It has been a rough 3 weeks

She has a 1 mo. old doeling who is fine, thankfully. But mama isn't doing so well. After I had had her only a week, she stopped eating for 4 days and I had to take her to the vet to have her pumped w/ electrolytes, antibiotics, and banamine. The diarrhea stopped, sorta.

Her poo is still gross! No nice little berries. Just a big ol' turd (for lack of a better word). Not liquid like scours, just never nice little berries like the other goats.

She was on a good worming program before I got her and I saw her numbers from her fecals. She did have some cocci but only about 40 opg.

She eats alfalfa hay and seems to really like it (although she does leave the stems ). She is so hit or miss with grain. Sometimes she gobbles it right up, other times, she hates it. She never acts hungry but she is thin as a rail. Her udder is moderately full but never so much that the teats fill. I haven't been able to milk her in 2 weeks, for fear of leaving her with nothing for her doeling. We went on a hike with her yesterday and she gobbled up lots of forage. I really though this would help. Nope. Today there are little mounds all over her pen. Almost worse than yesterday!

Her energy seems to be fine but I am soo worried about her poo! I am so worried that she will dry up! (Just what I need, another dry doe ) And her baby is a little young to be weaned. She's a sweet goat, and I am worried about her.

Any idea what is wrong with her?

Something I have noticed, and I realize this is a LONG shot. She seems to hate having things in her mouth. When she does eat grain she chews with her mouth open and so much of it falls out. She doesn't like treats of any kind - if they get into her mouth she'll let them fall back out. Do goats have mouth/teeth problems?

Of course, it could well be parasites/minerals/feed or a whole other host of things that could go wrong!

[meleahbee]

come on
anyone have any advice?

pretty please???

[Minelson]

I would give her a break from grain for a day and definatley give her some Probios. There is something going on in her mouth that needs to be checked. A sore or bad tooth or something...If she can't keep treats or grain in her mouth then it's time to call the vet...Keep us posted!

[Goat Servant]

If it is a tooth problem...even if it isn't, try giving her some barely cooked oatmeal with a little molasses in it, add some raisins or banana...see if she will do better with that?
As for the clumpy mounds, I don't know, maybe something is in her system that she needs to clear out.
One of my does has clumpies every year for about a month after kidding. But that is normal for her.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I used to have a doe that her poo was like big turds like yours just before kidding but only for a couple days then back to normal.
I would think something is wrong in her mouth too, maybe a bad tooth. Can you look & see in there with someone to help hold her. Maybe if you see something that looks abnormal then you could take her to the vet.
See if she will drink some apple cider vinegar water, I know I say that about alot of things but it sure won't hurt her.
I sure hope you figure it out soon because I know it'd be driving me crazy too!

[Mrs. Jo]

This isn't a tooth problem, this is a rumen problem. You mentioned two large stresses for goats kidding and moving. You have to help the goat recover from stress, then this will allow her system to get back in line.

If she has not been de-wormed then you need to do this, most likely twice about 14-21 days apart. She needs a high quality forage or pellets. She does not need a lot of grain, one or two pounds at the most, but don't just suddenly give her all that grain. (Do that slowly over a week or two.)

She needs her minerals and kelp. I would also give her a yeast of some kind, Diamond V, Fast Track or plain regular baking yeast to get her rumen ecology stimulated again. Yeast helps with the conversion of b vitamins, absorption of cobalt ad copper ect. Steal a cud from a healthy goat, it's better than probiotics IMO.

You can also give her vit c, and b-complex every day until she starts getting better. Slippery elm powder helps a lot with diarhea.

Did you get a fecal done? Be aware that cocci, and salmonella and other infections can also cause digestive problems, so it's a good idea to know what you are dealing with.

[meleahbee]

Thanks for your input, all.

As far as the mouth thing, I think that is a separate issue - I only included it for the possibility that she may not be getting enough high quality food if she can't chew - thus the problem with the stools.

She was wormed before and after kidding, her previous owner told me.

I personally saw her fecal results - 40 opg cocci, and some strongyles I believe. Really pretty low/normal in my opinion. I had her fecals redone when I went to the vet when she stopped eating. I didn't see the results, but the vet didn't seem to be alarmed by any of it. And that was when I had already had her for a week.

I'm doing everything else I'm supposed to, as far as I know. She does get free choice minerals. I've tried giving her kelp, but of course, she hates it! She gets maybe 1/2 pound of grain a day, and alfalfa/grass mix. I gave her just plain grass hay today which she is eating really well. But the poops are still gross...

Guess it's time to get out "ye olde drenching gun" and make up a little "treat"
I think I will put probios powder in it, and yeast too. I have vit. b I'll inject her with too.

I thought slippery elm was a laxative?? It makes my other goats poop like crazy with soft stools.

And, I'll check her mouth tonight.

I love my goaties dearly but they drive me crazy with worry sometimes!

Thanks again!

[southerngurl]

slippery elm is soothing.

[meleahbee]

Originally Posted by southerngurl

slippery elm is soothing.

gotcha. I just checked on Molly's Herbals. She said it treats diarrhea and constipation.

[GardenDogs]

One thing I always worry about when I hear about goats acting this way is Johne’s disease (It looks like John but it’s pronounced something like yo-knees.) I would not dismiss the mouth issue though I don’t think that will effect her poop. Goats can have lots of teeth and mouth issues. Some how you need to get her rumen re-inoculated and it is possible that she is not capable of maintaining a proper rumen flora. You can go as far as getting some rumen content from another goat and drenching this goat with it. I have also heard of people giving s**t shakes to an animal that needs re-inoculated non of that would be with out risk as parasites and disease could easily be transmitted. Kids normally pick up the microorganisms needed to establish their gut by nibbling food from the mouths of the dam and off the ground.

GOOD LUCK! I know how frustrating and worrisome this can be!

[Mrs. Jo]

Slippery elm is a "gut equiliser" is helps with diarhea and with constipation, and in any condition where the goats are not able to make normal stools.

You said you moved her? Did YOU worm her after you got her?

If you didn't than this is the (most likely) the problem. You can have parasite orgies going on, without seeing signs in a fecal. We've seen goats die of parasites without seeing eggs in a fecal. So it does happen, just rarely. I always consider both the physical condition and fecal tests. It alarms me when the physical condition is off like this. Do you know what your parasites are that you have to deal with?

[homebirtha]

Originally Posted by meleahbee

She was wormed before and after kidding, her previous owner told me.

I personally saw her fecal results - 40 opg cocci, and some strongyles I believe. Really pretty low/normal in my opinion. I had her fecals redone when I went to the vet when she stopped eating. I didn't see the results, but the vet didn't seem to be alarmed by any of it. And that was when I had already had her for a week.

So she hasn't been wormed since she arrived at your farm? Fecals are helpful, but they can miss things, especially when a goat already has runny poo. I would definitely consider worming her. She's in a new environment with new parasites that her system isn't used to. She needs some protection from them while she builds up resistance to your worms. Also, it's always good to worm when you bring in a new goat, so that you don't get different worms from a different farm on your farm.

Vitamin B might help her appetite and definitely Probios.

[southerngurl]

My understanding is that you can have a barberpole worm (that's the deadly one) infestation without it showing in fecals in the wintertime, the don't lay eggs. Then when warm weather hits they will start will start in laying again. Have you checked her eyelids? They should be dark pink.

[meleahbee]

No, I haven't wormed her since she's been here. The vet said it wasn't necessary due to her low worm numbers (this was after she had been with me for a week). She said it would be unnecessary and would only contribute to resistance. BUT, I know vets aren't always right...

The only chemical wormer I have on hand is safeguard, which I believe has become almost worthless....
Any recommendations for a chemical wormer that kills strongyles? It's hard to know which one to pick because worms didn't really show up on her fecal. I don't want to pick one that won't work for what she may/may not have...

As far as I know barber pole has not yet become a problem in our area. I went to a parasitology conference put on by WSU and the DVM said that haemonchus hasn't spread to us because it is so dry here.

Her eyelids are quite pink.

She has gained some weight this week from being on grass hay and not alfalfa and has even been better about eating grain.

I tried to milk her last night. Got about an ounce... (I only milked out one side though). I'm sure if I kept going I could have had a little more, but it wasn't a great time for either of us. I'm afraid if I wait to milk her she'll dry up completely, but I'm also afraid that if I milk her now that will rob her of the nutrients she so desperately needs.

A rock and a hard place, for sure.

[Mrs. Jo]

Go ahead and give the safeguard since you have it on hand. It will at least clear out any tapes. However, you will need to get a different wormer like ivermectin, levisole, or cydectin. Do you have anyone in your area you can call up and ask what they recommend?
Finding a mentor is important. You need to have an idea of what is working in your area. Your vets sounds like a typical vet, definitely run the advice you get from her through other people who know goats.

If she has kids nursing on her forget it- they always think you are trying to steal the kids milk. And she will fight for it. If you want to milk her, and keep kids on her than lock the kid up overnight and milk her out in the AM. You will have to train her to accept your milking, and expect that to take weeks.

You do not have to dry up a milk goat, just because she is thin. As her condition improves, she will gain more milk especially since it is summer and good feed and warm weather is coming.
Keep going on- it sounds like you have a good handle on this now.

[J.T.M.]

Originally Posted by meleahbee

come on
anyone have any advice?

pretty please???

I'm sorry but your post title cracks me up.I'm laughing so hard my wife just throw a shoe at me for waking her up.

[Jillis]

Meleah, if the yucky poo is from a change in feed, you could give her some activated charcoal, like Toxiban. That might help.

Jill~