Aggression...

mpete · #1 04/14/08, 11:19 AM

My neighbor got attacked by her alpine/oberhasly buck yesterday and my hubby is going to slaughter him next weekend but I was curious how genetic aggression is. She has a newborn buckling of his. This buck has always shown some type of "domineering" towards everyone and everything on her place so I was wondering about the buckling... what if the buckling is weathered? The doe (the bucklings mom) is tame and very nice. I do know that the buck was abused/neglected in the previous home... would that have anything to do with the aggression?
BTW... my neighbor is bruised, but will be ok. She is in her late 50's early 60's so I am glad he didn't do more damage....

Backfourty,MI. · #2 04/14/08, 03:41 PM

So glad the neighbor is OK since she could have really been hurt I bet. If the buck was abused & neglected at his previous home I would think that's alot of why he's the way he is, depending on what the last owners actually did or didn't do to him. If I liked the little buckling & wanted to wether him & keep him, I would.

jode · #3 04/14/08, 04:17 PM

I know some of it is genetic, but I'd say its only a small percentage compared to upbringing of the animal. This sounds like a clear case of problem upbringing. I wouldn't be too worried about the kid. And yes, castrating him at an early age would solve the aggression problem for sure.

Sweet Goats · #4 04/14/08, 04:56 PM

We had a buck that was born on my property, to a doe that was sweet as ever, and some with the dad,
The buck was really a sweet heart for years, and then one day he turned, and he was really hard to manage. We had to carry a pitch fork to protect ourselves. He was sold to someone that new how he was. It was really weird. If he was in the pasture, that is when you could not trust him. I had him in a pen at a show, like 6' x 6'. I was in the pen with him and he was the sweetest thing. He would love on you and just wanted to be pampered. Now this was a cashmere and I tell you the horns on him were beautiful, and HUGE. People were shocked how loving he was in the pen. But in the pasture look out. I do miss him

jode · #5 04/14/08, 05:10 PM

They say that if you are going to keep a billy/buck, it is better to keep him scared of you and never coddle him. We have a shetland ram that will take me out if I ever turn my back on him and an angora ram that will push a lot on you when you carry out the feedbucket. I will no longer enter the pens they are in without a squirt gun (the big pump up ones that shoot a sustained and thick stream). I also never turn my backs on them.

I also had a large blackbelly ram with big horns who was very scared of humans and would not approach them. I would WAY rather have that then a "freindly" billy/ram that was constantly close to me and that I always have to watch out for. The next time I raise an intact male, I am going to keep him afraid of me from the time his is a baby. I'm tired of fearing for my safety.

Freeholder · #6 04/14/08, 06:09 PM

Well, I hate to see animals butchered for behavior that can be cured. Doesn't matter what 'caused' it, what matters is making it stop (and ALL goats have an instinct to dominate everything around them, it just tends to come out stronger in some individuals, esp. bucks, but does can be bad, too, esp. to other does -- being abused or mistreated may not have anything to do with it. I've had several goats challenge me and none of them had EVER been mistreated -- I'd bottle-raised them, so I know how they were treated.).

If they want to make him stop acting like that (and it is dangerous, especially so if there might be children around), they need to take him by the legs and flip him upside down and sit on him until he stops struggling and submits. I do that periodically to my bucks, and it works extremely well (also works on wethers and does, use as needed). A stubborn one will need a couple of repeats (sometimes immediately, sometimes a few days later), but then should be good for quite a while. I have a two-year-old Oberhasli buck who was gone all winter and may need a repeat lesson before much longer, but then he should be good for the rest of the year (until he comes in rut again!).

I repeat, if you have a goat who challenges you in any way (rearing up at you, pushing on you, biting -- anything they do to other goats to show who is dominant), grab both legs on one side of the goat, pull them out from under and flip the goat onto it's back. I'm a 51-y-o lady with a bad back, and I can do it even to my big buck. Then sit on him (or her, as the case may be) until he yields and stops fighting you. Then you can get clear and let him up. You will probably have to hold onto flying feet while sitting on him. Just sit hard enough to pin him, not enough to squish him.

There may be a faint risk of twisting a gut with the flipping, but I do think it's very faint, and compared to the alternative of either putting the goat down, or taking it to auction, it's well worth it to have an animal you can safely live with.

Kathleen

mpete · #7 04/14/08, 09:45 PM

wow Kathleen... thanks for that information. I had no idea that flipping them would work so well. I am definately going to use all this info for my own bucks.
I finally got the whole story.... She noticed 3 little girls in the pasture and told them to leave and he attacked her, ramming her and trying to gore her. She is so black and blue, the buck broke off the attack when he heard some noises at the back door.
I will talk to her about maybe retraining him... she may change her mind but I gave her a cooling off period by housing him here until.... ?