Need guidance on sick wether

EasyDay · #1 04/02/08, 07:30 AM

My wether, Sammy, has been acting constipated for several days.

His coat is looking rough, so we wormed him a few days ago. We have also given him Milk of Magnesia a few times. The thing is, he is eating... sometimes with his normal vigor, sometimes just more picking at his feed. He's drinking water. His poos are normal berries.

But, he is still pushing like he's constipated even though his bowels are empty. He pushes so hard that it looks like he's gonna poo his innards out.

Our vet is out of town, so am hoping that one of you here can give me some insight as to what may be happening.

Should I give him some Probios, maybe?

Thanks, all!

mary,tx · #2 04/02/08, 07:44 AM

Is he peeing? It sounds like urinary calculi. My two little bucklings that I bought at auction last year came home with it, and I cured it quickly with ammonium chloride (sp?). But it is a problem that needs fixed quickly!
It is caused, btw, by feed. Be sure your feed has ammonium chloride in it.

For now, though, if you have not seen this guy making good pee, call your feed stores and find out who sells ac by the ounce. You only need a very small amount, so you don't need to buy a big bag. Mix a little with water, put it in a needleless syringe, and squirt it into the back of his mouth.

Be aware that it will burn somewhat; he won't like it. But it will cure him.

mary

EasyDay · #3 04/02/08, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary,tx

Is he peeing? It sounds like urinary calculi. My two little bucklings that I bought at auction last year came home with it, and I cured it quickly with ammonium chloride (sp?). But it is a problem that needs fixed quickly!
It is caused, btw, by feed. Be sure your feed has ammonium chloride in it.

For now, though, if you have not seen this guy making good pee, call your feed stores and find out who sells ac by the ounce. You only need a very small amount, so you don't need to buy a big bag. Mix a little with water, put it in a needleless syringe, and squirt it into the back of his mouth.

Be aware that it will burn somewhat; he won't like it. But it will cure him.

mary

Thanks for that, Mary! I hope the feed store can advise on dosage. I've only seen him pee a little, so this may be the problem.

They are in a large yard during the day, get rough hay for their rumen, goat pellets in the evening, and have a goat mineral block available. DH noticed the other day, though, that Sammy had gotten into the cows' salt mix. I wouldn't think a goat would eat that... the others don't... but maybe Sammy did? It had corn in it, so maybe he ate too much corn and is over-fermenting? These are just some sidelines to consider.

Rockytopsis · #4 04/02/08, 08:08 AM

Is he straining when he is peeing?
If he is not straining to pee I would not think UC would be a problem. I have watched my wethers pee and it seems as if they don't have a strong stream anyway. However if you can't find the Ammonium Cloride though just in case you can drench with apple cider vinegar.

You also said that he was acting constipated put pooing normal berries so I would also hold off on any more MOM. It may be causing him to strain.

Does he have access to baking soda? That may help if he ate something that he should not have.

Starsmom · #5 04/02/08, 08:10 AM

Urinary Calculi is a VERY serious condition and can kill them quickly and painfully. I have had a goat come down with it. If you can't find AC in town, call a cattle rancher, they may have some on hand. If this is what it is, this is something that cannot wait. Another thing you can do is at the very tip of the penis is a very thin piece that looks like a tiny worm (I can NEVER remember what this is called) anyway, you can cut that off. It will not hurt him in anyway he can live just fine without it...that is usually where the small grains will lodge and that could help him alot. Even if you do this, you need to get the AC into him. I would also suggest that if you get through this to keep some on hand at all times for this particular reason. I also have a few pounds of it on hand and it is nice to have. It isn't expensive and it is peace of mind.

mary,tx · #6 04/02/08, 08:18 AM

[QUOTE=Rockytopsis;2986312]Is he straining when he is peeing?
If he is not straining to pee I would not think UC would be a problem. [QUOTE]

The reason my guess goes with UC is because the description of "acting constipated" but still getting berries described pretty well what mine acted like. They hunched up as if trying very hard to "go". It seemed to me that a first thought looking at them would have been constipation. But what they couldn't do, or couldn't do more than a slight trickle of, was pee.

There is not a real dosage, as far as I know, on the ammonium chloride. Just mix it up, as saturated as you can get it, as much as you can get in your syringe, and get some in him.

If this is his problem, it needs to be taken care of today. It is critical.

mary

EasyDay · #7 04/02/08, 08:27 AM

Thanks, all

Mary, your descriptions sounds "spot on".

I managed to reach my vet on his cell. Asked him about the ac, but told him I don't have any on hand. He said to give him 1/4 cup vinegar now and again in 4 hours. (For the record, Sammy's about 110 lbs.) So, we just gave him his first dose. I'll keep you posted for your own goatio notebooks, and thanks for your fast replies.

Rockytopsis · #8 04/02/08, 08:27 AM

Mary I understand what you are saying about the hunched up part, but the OP said the goat was straining when pooing not when peeing. That is why I ask the question if the goat "is straining to pee". I also agree if that is the problem it is very serions.

Minelson · #9 04/02/08, 08:39 AM

Fias website addresses uc with guidelines on prevention and treatment...
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm She also sells the Amonium Chloride and ships very quickly. Keep us posted...hope he's ok

EasyDay · #10 04/02/08, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockytopsis

Mary I understand what you are saying about the hunched up part, but the OP said the goat was straining when pooing not when peeing. That is why I ask the question if the goat "is straining to pee". I also agree if that is the problem it is very serions.

Rocky, he's straining off and on without pooing or peeing. Your advice regarding the vinegar is exactly what my vet said. Well done, and thanks.

EasyDay · #11 04/02/08, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

Fias website addresses uc with guidelines on prevention and treatment...
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm She also sells the Amonium Chloride and ships very quickly. Keep us posted...hope he's ok

Minelson, the second symptom listed there is what I was afraid of.... prolapsing his rectum due to straining so hard.

I was just reading this same website yesterday, but I was looking more for constipation. It never dawned on me that his problem was peeing, not pooing.

Thanks,

mary,tx · #12 04/02/08, 09:33 AM

I'd still call around about the ammonium chloride. I don't know about vinegar, but I do know that the AC works.
mary

EasyDay · #13 04/02/08, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary,tx

I'd still call around about the ammonium chloride. I don't know about vinegar, but I do know that the AC works.
mary

I will. Since I've already given the first dose of vinegar, per the vet, I'll give the second dose and noon and hope that does the trick. Will get some ac when I go to town.

fishhead · #14 04/02/08, 10:26 AM

What's his normal diet?

My goats seem to pee every time they get up from lying down so if you can catch him lying down walk towards him to get him to stand up. Then watch to see if he pees.

The vinegar isn't strong enough so I would get some AC even if it's just to keep for later.

coso · #15 04/02/08, 11:29 AM

Good luck. Dad had a buck that had this. The vet come out and cut the very end of his penis off and he was able to pass some urine. But in a couple of days he was stopped up again and this time it was in the urethra. They can do a operation but it is costly, and once it is done they can't extend anymore so are worthless as a buck. I ended up putting him down. The AC needs to be added to the feed all the time not just when there is a problem at this point you can hope he passes them, which some will, but if you see that he is getting sicker and still not being able to go, this probably means his bladder has burst. At this point he needs to be put down,because he will die a slow death. Look at this website and it will tell some more. http://books.google.com/books?id=mXH...l=en#PPA149,M1

Starsmom · #16 04/02/08, 11:42 AM

When mine came down with it, I gave him the vinegar, lemon juice, while it did seem to help just a little, it was only a temporary solution, it helped to pass the smaller particles. It will not work on larger ones and if they are having a problem, there are larger ones in there. The AC dissolves them and/or makes them soft enough to pass. Not only did I have this problem with a goat, but I have a cat that gets this quite often. My vet gave me pills called Ammonil, it works great, but again, this does take a day to work, so you have to make sure he has a day. Worse case scenario you can take him to the vet and let him drain the bladder to give him time for the AC to work if he is really bad. They can try to catheterize him as well. Sometimes they can push the blockage back into the bladder and give the AC time to dissolve it and then he can pass it out normally.

When my goat got bad, he would press his head against something and strain and moan. It was horrible to watch, you don't want it to get to that stage. Also put some salt blocks out so as they eat those it will encourage more drinking and that will also help alot (after he is better), to keep the bladder flushed out. Once they get this, they are prone to it, so please keep the AC on hand. Bucks/whethers do not need grain if they have a good quality hay.

Backfourty,MI. · #17 04/02/08, 11:53 AM

Easyday, I agree with Mary,tx. It sounds exactly like Urinary Calculi. My little Nigerian buck had it earlier this winter. Terrible problem with it although I have it under control now. The fias Co. website is the dosage I follow. For your guy he needs 1 tsp per day. I started out mixing it with water then using a big needless syringe, Mine didn't even mind it after a few times, Now I topdress alfafa pellets with a little molasses to make it stick & 1 tsp per day mixed on his food.
I know some people will think the alfafa pellets are a no no, but I tried the oats & a small amount of grain with it topdressed & in a matter of a couple days he was bleeding again. I have been doing it this way for a month now & NO problems so this works for me!
It is a TERRIBLE PAINFUL thing for them to go through & even worse Painful Death this way! This is SERIOUS! Please Mix 2 Tablespoons Ammonium Chloride in 30 to 40 cc. of water & give him all of it the 1st dose! That's what I did for my LITTLE guy(60 pounds) & he's fine.
It can be caused from too much grain, something to do with your water & his system, etc. You may never know exactly but I bet he's going to need AC the rest of his life daily.
Look around the penis area, do you see what looks like crystals or might look like ice stuck to his hair? If you do then it's definately the problem!
There is a process that can be done at the vet called the urethra process, the vet snips
the worm at the end of his penis off. You hate to have this done except for a last resort but if you can not clear him up quickly you might have to have it done!

Sweet Goats · #18 04/02/08, 01:26 PM

I hope you get it figured out. It does sound like UC to me also, but it does sound like a prolapsed rectum also. It all depends on if he is peeing. That is the real question.
I sold a wether several years ago and the new owner called me as she was boarding a plain to be wit her mother as she was dying and I told her that he had UC. By the time I got to him it was really to late. He was in so much pain that I just cried when I saw him. I tried like you have never seen to get the end of his penis out so I could cut the tip off, but I could not get it out, so I had to have him put to sleep. Talk about someone crying like a baby, that was me. He was the first goat we ever bought and he was why we got into goats in the first place. even thought i had sold him he was still in my heart.

I would tell everyone to get some Ammonia Chloride and have it on hand. I hate to say it but the ACV really will not help if they are very bad, it is only a good way to try to help prevent it. I could not get the AC anywhere around so I bought it from Pipeline Vet. It is SO cheap, I could not believe I did not have it on hand already.

EasyDay · #19 04/02/08, 01:49 PM

Okay... he's had both doses of vinegar, as per the vet. He's still straining, and his pee is only coming in 5-6 drops with each strain. I have called every feed store two counties around and can't find ac.

As my vet is out of town, I'm going to call another vet... which is an issue because no one makes farm calls anymore except my regular vet. Maybe they can at least get me some ac... and fast!

He's drinking water and nibbling at grass, but didn't want his pellets last night.

Thanks for your replies... I'm off and running again!

Minelson · #20 04/02/08, 01:52 PM

Call vets and are there any other goat people you know you can try in the area? If all else fails maybe you can contact Fias or someone on line to overnight it to you