Help! Sick Doe! Scours!

meleahbee · #1 03/25/08, 07:01 PM

I woke up this morning to find my new Kinder doe, Bitty, had green puddles of diarrhea all over her pen. I've only had her, and her 10 day old doeling, Bunny, for four days. She has been regularly wormed with an herbal wormer and I saw her recent fecal results - all numbers were low. And there were no weird worms - just low count strongyles and 48 opg coccidia. Her delivery of Bunny was normal and was unassisted. She has been vaccinated for CDT.

I have been milking her and giving her grain - just dry COB, and she gets good alfalfa. I checked with her previous owner who said she didn't milk Bitty so Bitty never got grain. Do you think this is the cause? A sudden switch to grain? Acidosis?

So today she had scours but her temp was normal. I gave her some Kaopectate and was able to drench about 2 oz. of Pedialyte into her. She is drinking water but won't eat. I put some clean straw out there when I cleaned out her poopy. She did eat some of the clean straw. She nibbled a little bit at some hay I offered her. She does seem a little weak - but not at death's door. She's been up and walking around and playing with her doeling today, but mostly just laying around.

Is there anything else I can do for her? Should I try to get some food into her? Thin oatmeal or something like that?

TIA!

WeaverRose · #2 03/25/08, 07:10 PM

If she's not used to being fed grain, it can cause what you described. Hold off on trying to get her to eat the grain, see if she gets better on just water, hay, etc. It sure is scary to see them get scours, I'm sure others on this board will have ideas of what has worked with theirs. We don't have Kinders so maybe someone else will chime in.
Hope she recovers soon!

fishhead · #3 03/25/08, 07:42 PM

Have you given her probiotics or yogurt?

meleahbee · #4 03/25/08, 07:59 PM

I was able to get a bit of ProBios in her about 20 minutes ago. Should that straighten things out?

fishhead · #5 03/25/08, 08:43 PM

It should help rebuild the right bacteria population if that is part of the problem.

Also, I didn't see if you have given her baking soda. If you haven't I would offer her some in case her stomach pH is acid. I keep baking soda out for the goats all the time.

Thunderhill · #6 03/26/08, 05:50 AM

With our goats, green scours is most often caused by the goaties getting out and overeating on fresh green grass...could also be overeating their alfalfa if she is not used to it.
If she were mine I would give her probios twice a day and then only hay, no grain, until she comes back around.
Might try a BComplex shot to keep her energy up

meleahbee · #7 03/26/08, 10:29 AM

Unfortunately, the ground is covered in snow here. So it's definitely not green grass. I really think it's the grain.

I don't have any B-Complex around here. I do have Nutri-Drench. Will that do the same thing or should I go out and get the B-Complex?

She won't eat anything. She sniffs at the hay I offer her, but that's about it. I offered her some baking soda, she didn't take any. I saw one of her stools last night - it had hardened up quite a bit - not quite berries yet - but almost to the "cluster of grapes" stage as I call it.

She's drinking water normally, though. Is it okay for her to go this long without eating if she's got a baby nursing on her?

I think my goats make it their job to worry me....

Backfourty,MI. · #8 03/26/08, 10:37 AM

Myself I would mix her up some warm apple cidar vinegar water & try & get her to eat some yogurt. It sounds like her stomach(rumen) is still not feeling right.
was she getting grass hay or alfafa hay from the previous owner?

meleahbee · #9 03/26/08, 11:30 AM

She got alfalfa hay from her previous owner.

meleahbee · #10 03/26/08, 01:37 PM

I gave her some more Kaopectate this morning. But now I just went out there and there are more puddles of poo! Nothing is solid anymore and she had poop all over her - down her legs and on her tail. I cleaned her off and tried to give her a herbal dosage ball of molasses/honey and probios powder. She will take absolutely nothing by mouth now. I don't know if she's still drinking at this point. I drenched her with some probios powder mixed in water, but she's spitting everything I drench her with back out. I've just been using a large syringe without the needle to drench her. I guess I should get out the real drenching gun with the long nozzle thing to really stick back in her throat.

I haven't seen the baby nurse on her. But she still seems fine.

Should I be calling a vet? I'm guessing they'll just give her IV fluids and some meds to stop the diarrhea.

It's been over 24 hours and no improvement in her.

fishhead · #11 03/26/08, 02:09 PM

Does she have a elevated temperature?

Will she eat yogurt? Baking soda?

china glass · #12 03/26/08, 02:20 PM

wont giving mollasses cause scours ??

Backfourty,MI. · #13 03/26/08, 02:43 PM

I would give her pepto instead of the kaopectate, see if you can get some yogurt down her a little at a time & really I would put a bucket of warm apple cidar vinegar water in there for her. I had a doe last spring that wouldn't eat anything after kidding & i gave her some warm vinegar water & she sucked it down, I kept it up every day & she was like a new goat in a day or so. I know it's not a cure all but at this point I would try it.
Have you taken her temp?

fishhead · #14 03/26/08, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by china glass

wont giving mollasses cause scours ??

I think too much of anything with sugar in it would cause acid stomach and scours.

tioga12 · #15 03/26/08, 04:31 PM

I had a doe that did this last year after kidding and being wormed...
We let her kids stay with her but had to supplement bottle-feed them for 2-3 weeks until her supply was up to par.
I remember feeding her with an oral gun. I gave her gatorade and probiotics, nutri-drench, and an anti-diarrheal (can't remember, think it was pepto). I was really concerned about her, but she came around. This year I had another doe get diarrhea after kidding, and I gave her the probiotics 2-3 X a day for several days, and she was not nearly so bad off as the doe last year had been.

goatkid · #16 03/26/08, 06:18 PM

For a doe who is scouring and not eating, do not give her molasses. It's hard on the rumen. I'd get some C&D antitoxin. Give 10cc subQ and 10cc orally. Alfalfa hay might be too rich for her now. I use something called Diarsanyl to help with the scouring. See if she'll eat a little grass hay. I'm pretty sure what is going on with her is a feed change from her old home to yours. Goats have bacteria in their rumen which helps them digest food. When you change or add feed, the rumen bacteria needs to change to adjust for what they are eating. This is why we always do any feed changes slowly, especially when this involves grain. If she is not drinking any water, she needs to be hydrated by administering lactated ringers under the skin. When does are not eating, their milk production usually drops drastically. You need to make sure the baby is fed. If you have no other goats to provide milk for her, you can feed her whole cow's milk warmed up from a bottle. I like to use 20 oz pop bottles with a Pritchard nipple.

meleahbee · #17 03/26/08, 07:34 PM

I just broke down and took her to the vet.

We had to tube her and give her an electrolyte complex because she was pretty dehydrated. When the tube went down they found some undigested grain stuck in her throat - either it never went all the way down or the rumen just wasn't working right to produce a partially-digested cud. That could explain why I couldn't even get her oral drenches to go down.

Also gave her banamine for her fever and an antibiotic. The vet didn't like the looks of the discharge coming from her vulva and wants to do an ultrasound next week to make sure there's nothing left in there from her recent kidding. She also said this gastrointestinal upset could happen if there is an infection going on in her uterus. Hope that's not the case and it's just from the feed change.

So some questions for you - If I shouldn't give her grain now because it will be a sudden feed change - what should I give her while I milk her? (Obviously I'm giving her some time off while I milk her - baby still nurses on her).

If she only gets grass hay - where will she get enough calcium to sustain the lactation? That's why I was giving her the alfalfa/grass mix hay.

Thanks for your help!

Starsmom · #18 03/26/08, 09:47 PM

I would give her all the hay she wants and no grain for a day or so. Then slowly reintroduce the grain to her. You could always steal a cud from another goat and give that to her.That will help with her stomach upset. I had a doe last year that had constant diarrhea. It wouldn't stop, it was so bad I thought she was gonna lose her kids. I would get it thickened up and start thinking ok now we got a hold on it and then it would start all over. The vet tried various different meds and they would work a few days and then quit. Finally I stole a cud twice a day from one of my other does and within 24 hours she was near normal. I kept it up though until I saw her producing her own cud like normal. It cleared up and didn't come back and she kidded with twins and all was fine.

Goat Servant · #19 03/27/08, 12:13 AM

Starsmom how do you go about stealing cud?

Meleabee I had a doe slinging snot everywhere...Now that you mentioned it Im sure there was a blockage, however poop was normal. Took her off grain and she has been getting a couple of cups of barely cooked oatmeal 2 X's daily for a month now lots of calcium.....have just started to add grain back a little at a time. This was a Nubian doe who kidded about a month ago. also alfalfa.
Hope your gal clears up quickly!

Starsmom · #20 03/27/08, 11:11 AM

You gotta be quick. When you see the goat hack up that wad you have to grab them quick and reach in and take it. Beware, they may try to bite as they will wonder what in the heck you are doing!!! It may take a couple tries. I just sat there and was petting my doe and had a hold of her collar, she loved the attention and as soon as that cud came up I had her mouth open and reached in before she knew what was going on. After doing it a couple times she knew and would let me take it. The first couple times can be a challenge. Of course I wish I had a camera the first time I did it, her face was priceless. Then when she saw me feed it to the other goat....it was hey, that's mine!!!