Still unsure about how to raise the kids

farm mom · #1 02/27/08, 10:09 AM

We are getting set up for kidding to happen early March. This will be only our third kidding. We had goats a few years ago but I'm just confused about if I should pull them off and bottle feed right away, leave them with the mom for a week to get colostrum then pull them, or let them nurse all day and pull them at night. We are wanting the milk for our family use so would like all we can get. And I guess I'm a softy but I feel bad for pulling them immediately from mom. (Darn, I'm normally not a softie at all, maybe I am looking at it through "mother" eyes too much) Also, even though my herd is CAE negative I do want it to stay that way. What do you do?

DQ · #2 02/27/08, 11:19 AM

I am leaving the kids on the dam. after 1 or 2 weeks I separate at night and milk in the morning. I do this for several reasons, I like only milking once per day. I would rather milk more does once per day than less does twice and get more kids. I don't feel right taking does from kids unless their is a confirmed reason to, such as cae positive. I am not concerned with keeping an udder perfect for showing or using cae prevention methods as a marketing tool. I am raising the goats for my own use or to sell as meat, with maybe a few family milkers for sale occasionally so my priorities are different than someone who is raising registered dairy show stock. it is very important to me that the dams can raise their kids without my help so that I can sell or keep profitable meat animals. I think you have to decide on your priorities and plans and using all the info you can dredge up figure out what will work best for your situation and goals.

jBlaze · #3 02/27/08, 11:25 AM

Pulling them right away means having to feed them TOO frequently for my taste! After a week or two they are fine with two or three times a day bottles. Before that they do MUCH better fed more often, I would just let them stay with mama for a week or two. My does don't really come into a lot of milk till the second week either, and having kids nurse on her frequently may stimulate her to produce more than you would get milking twice a day right off.

BlueHeronFarm · #4 02/27/08, 11:26 AM

We pull kids at birth. The kids certainly don't know the difference...most of our moms don't seem to care, either. Only one ever showed any interest in her kids last year, and this year when she kidded, she did not go look for them.

By getting them started with us, we feel it makes them more human-bonded. It may not be scientifically a fact, but it works for us, so we do it.

From what I have heard, it can be harder to get them to take a bottle if they have been nursing the dam first. Maybe someone who has done that can weigh in.

dkdairygoats · #5 02/27/08, 11:32 AM

I have only ever tried once to bottle feed after leaving kids on the dam for a week. In one word....impossible! They are so stubborn. One of them did eventually drink from a bottle, the other wouldn't. It came down to either tube feeding or just leaving her on her dam.

I pull kids right away. Some does will call for them for a day or two, but they forget pretty fast. I also bottle feed mainly so the kids stay friendly...even when the does are friendly the kids have no reason to be if they are dam-raised.

NYSaanen · #6 02/27/08, 12:49 PM

We pull kids at birth.
Follow CAE prevention protocol, though never had a positive.
Heat treat and pasteurize. Bottle feed 3x per day at first, dropping back to 2x per day.

It's not for everyone. I guess you have to decide for yourself what you are looking to accomplish in the long run.

MamaDee · #7 02/27/08, 02:12 PM

From what I have heard, it can be harder to get them to take a bottle if they have been nursing the dam first. Maybe someone who has done that can weigh in>>>>

I have heard that also. But, I have to say, it has not been our experience here. We do pretty much what jBlaze does. We leave the kids on for a week or so. It depends on if we need their pen right away, but mostly we got by milk taste. Once the milk tastes good to drink, we pull the babies and start using the milk for ourselves. Those first few days to a week are just too many bottles too often to work for us (five kids, me pregnant with sixth).

I have not had a problem getting the kids to take the bottle. Out of our last 10 kids, two of them took a bit longer. Eight of them took to it right away, like it was second nature. The other two took about two days. They first tried to bite the nipple instead of suck it and acted sort of confused and even fought the bottle at first. I hold them on my lap, stroke the top of their head and put my fingers on either side of the mouth so the nipple doesn't come out the side. They both took some of each bottle, but after day two they were pros, too. And......one of those babies was pulled immediately at birth b/c the mama wouldn't nurse it, so it wasn't b/c it was used to nursing. The other was pulled at a week.

I agree you have to do what works for you. We want all the milk, so we want to pull the babies. But it makes more sense for us to wait until the milk is drinkable for us--also less work the first week. Only need to even the udders out at night.

And.....I've also heard that it's harder on the moms and kids to let them nurse for a bit emotionally, too. But I can say the mom who put up the biggest fuss was the mom who's baby was pulled right at birth. So......go figure......the rest seemed to do fine as long as they can see their babies through the fence. The complained about it for a day or so, that's it.

Dee

AnnaS · #8 02/27/08, 08:34 PM

With CAE negative (& otherwise healthy) does, there really isn't a wrong way to raise the kids.

My doelings & presold bucklings are bottle raised. They are fed 3-4 times the first day and 2x a day after that, & they do fine. Unsold & non-buck quality bucklings stay with their dams. I have never separated dam-raised kids for daily milking. My does with kids are milked twice a day and have decent yields. The only problem is guessing what those kids are eating and feeding to support that.

As for the "mom" thing... I have does that seem to get a lot of satisfaction from raising kids, and some that just tolerate their annoying babies. Happy does are productive does, so the my mommy does will always get a baby, even if it's not their own.

**mygoat** · #9 02/27/08, 09:00 PM

I find that pulling the kids is more beneficial to me.

* You get to harvest and freeze leftover colostrum for future use
* Your does will not lower their production to the needs of their kids (if you don't want them to do this but leave kids on, you have to milk 2-3x per day anyways, might as well pull 'em)
* Don't have to worry about 'ruined' udders
* You get more milk b/c does and kids train themselves to nurse pre-milking, leaving you with little.
* Disease prevention - Not just CAE! - helps your sales pitch whether your herd is negative or not
* Babies are MUCH tamer and you can sell them as early as 2 weeks old so you get more milk!
* Dam's don't mind that much - Do NOT allow them even to dry off their kids, take them immediately and they will not even notice. They may even try to adopt you as their kid.

* Does are easier in the stand, especially FF, if they feel you aren't stealing their baby's milk!
* Feeding schedule isn't too taxing... if it is impossible due to conflict with work schedule, make a lambar out of a cheap, small rigid cooler instead of a bucket... if it's warm out side, put a frozen pop bottle in there and it will stay chill for hours. (they can drink chilled milk after they're a little older) If it's cold outside, just put warm milk in the cooler. make a frame for it and leave it out there for them free choice.