Linear Appraisal booklet

[mygoat]

I just got my ADGA linear appraisal booklet. Man, is it full of good stuff!

One thing I'm confused about is which one is the ideal in some situations. I'm guessing the middle picture/situation is the most desirable?

[mygoat]

Anybody?

[Middle River]

I don't have one, so i'm not much help there, but i'd love to get one. I really need to learn more about how my alpines should look and how to judge conformation better. Where can i get one ?

[AnnaS]

You're right, mygoat. Most of the traits should fall in the middle of the scale.

The "ideal" ranges from the ADGA type committee:

strength 27 - 33
dairyness 33 - 38
teat diameter 18 - 28
rear legs 25 - 30
rump angle 30 -35
rump width 30- 35
fore udder 35 - 42
rear udder hgt 40 - 45
rear udder arch 32 - 40
udder depth 22 - 27
medial 28 - 32
teat placement 25 - 30

These ideals are based on an ideal four year old doe. While a lot of the structural trait scores should be fairly stable year to year, we would NOT want to a see a FF yearling with a 22 udder depth!

It's interesting to talk to type committee members & appraisers about these numbers. A 50 fore udder- long & tight- is strongly associated with low production. So while it would be a desirable show trait, it's not a desirable trait for long lived, productive milkers, which is what the Linear program is geared toward.

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by Middle River

I don't have one, so i'm not much help there, but i'd love to get one. I really need to learn more about how my alpines should look and how to judge conformation better. Where can i get one ?

You can order the booklet from ADGA- I think it's $2- or if you have a password to the members only part of the ADGA website, you can download it for free.

[Tracy in Idaho]

Originally Posted by AnnaS

A 50 fore udder- long & tight- is strongly associated with low production. So while it would be a desirable show trait, it's not a desirable trait for long lived, productive milkers, which is what the Linear program is geared toward.

Ah....but again -- not always true. DESERT-MAGNOLIA FUCHSIA was the #1 Top Ten doe for production in 2000, with #4790 AND she scored a 50 in fore udder that same year!


Tracy

[farm mom]

How do you get into the linear appraisal program for evaluating your goats each year?

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by Tracy in Idaho

Ah....but again -- not always true. DESERT-MAGNOLIA FUCHSIA was the #1 Top Ten doe for production in 2000, with #4790 AND she scored a 50 in fore udder that same year!


Tracy

Yep, the traits are strong correlations, not if x = y, then production will be z. There will always be exceptions to the rule on both extremes. I have one of those does too- an "A" on body capacity and #4600 this year. Where is she making it??

But in general, if we want a racehorse, we pick a Thoroughbred. There's some slow TBs, and some really fast Clydesdales, but those exceptions don't disprove the rule.

[Middle River]

Thanks Anna S. !

[Tracy in Idaho]

I'd just hate for someone to think that you HAVE to have a poor fore udder to get milk! You don't! My herd averages 36-41 in fores, and my rolling herd average this year was over 3400# with half the herd being yearlings. Even my highest milker Agatha -- at #4880 had a 36 fore.
Interesting about your "A" capacity high milker -- I'd love to see a photo of her!

Farm Mom, go to the http://www.adga.org site and on the left hand side there will be a link to Linear Appraisal. Then you pay a $25 fee when you send in your form and get on the schedule. You can hold your own (that is what I do) or haul your goats to a host herd farm.

If you have to pick to spend $ between appraisal and showing, you by far get more information out of appraisal -- but in the end, breed what YOU like

Tracy

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by Tracy in Idaho

I'd just hate for someone to think that you HAVE to have a poor fore udder to get milk! You don't! My herd averages 36-41 in fores, and my rolling herd average this year was over 3400# with half the herd being yearlings. Even my highest milker Agatha -- at #4880 had a 36 fore.

Tracy, you and I are on the same page here. I was using the 50 foreudder as an illustration that the extremes are not the ideals. Stuff like hind legs are pretty obvious but that 50 fore udder in the Linear booklet sure looks nice-but is not ideal. The ideal range for foreudders, as I listed, is 35-42. Your herd's ideal foreudders is a super example of type going along with high production.

BTW, Tracy is refuting the idea that a few breeders still cling to- that a high producing goat MUST have a ugly udder, and a show doe can't milk. With the Toggs, most of the Top Ten does are also EX and/or GCHs. I suspect this is true with most breeds.

Originally Posted by Tracy in Idaho

Interesting about your "A" capacity high milker -- I'd love to see a photo of her!

There should be a photo of her head in the March UCN... Her sire & dam are gorgeous, her half sisters are winning at Nationals, her kids win, and she is some weirdo throwback to 1940. If she had body capacity, and some more foreudder (30, she has a pocket) she'd be making over #5000.

I guess she's the equivalent of the really, really fast Clydesdale in my earlier post.

[mygoat]

Thanks, that foreudder was what especially confused me; I had always heard NO pocket for show, but it was one of the 'extreme' conditions. My doe with a pocket in her udder produced 11 lbs this year as a 2nd freshener.... my doe without the pocket produced 6-7 as a 5 year old...

[Middle River]

Anna S. - i can get into the member's site on ADGA - but i couldn't find it, could you tell me the steps to get to it ? Thanks !

[Tracy in Idaho]

I'm still convinced that you can have a doe that will be a Breed Leader, appraise excellent, and go Top Ten at Nationals! I'm just trying to make one

When you are talking about pockets -- you also have to know what you are working with. A small pocket on a yearling or even a 2 yr old -- is not in the least bit worrisome to me. As that doe matures and her body capacity improves - her barrel fills out -- that pocket will start smoothing out as it has more capacity to attach to.

Tracy

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I'm still convinced that you can have a doe that will be a Breed Leader, appraise excellent, and go Top Ten at Nationals! I'm just trying to make one
..............................

Like Kastdemur Santa Cruz blissberry.com EX92, 1st place 2nd udder at nationals, Top 10 breed leader status in all 3 catagories in DHIR over #3500 pounds and why I have her son at my house and 8 does bred to him

Of course an udder with excellent attachment can milk, the milk is where it is supposed to be hidden by the thighs and up in the body, not hanging out swingin in the breeze. Vicki

[dkdairygoats]

When you are talking about pockets -- you also have to know what you are working with. A small pocket on a yearling or even a 2 yr old -- is not in the least bit worrisome to me. As that doe matures and her body capacity improves - her barrel fills out -- that pocket will start smoothing out as it has more capacity to attach to.

Very true...one of my 2 yr olds had a good sized pocket last year, this year it is all but gone unless she's really super full.

I expect my does to milk well, but that doesn't mean I want saggy baggies. I want them up tight because the production life is longer that way, not to mention much more attractive. I have a doe with a beautiful udder milking 10# right now, and a doe with an ugly udder milking 7#. There is no reason that a good milker should be associated with an ugly udder.

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by Tracy in Idaho

I'm still convinced that you can have a doe that will be a Breed Leader, appraise excellent, and go Top Ten at Nationals! I'm just trying to make one
Tracy

There's a Togg like that- Whispering*Hope A Lauren. In 2005, she appraised 92 EX, was 1st place 4 year old at Nationals, and made all 3 Breed Leader lists (and went SGCH).

I want to make one of those too... which is why Lauren's son now lives in my barn.