I hate coccidia!

meleahbee · #1 02/16/08, 04:47 PM

Does anyone know what a "normal" range of coccidia is for goats? All of mine have it

but my 8 month old wethers have very high numbers. To the tune of 1756 oocysts per gram in one and 1184 oocysts per gram in the other. There is no "normal" or "acceptable" range listed on the lab report. Just from the sound of these numbers, I'd say these are quite high. But I'm not sure if they indicate that their lives are in danger, or if I just need to step it up with my worming program. Any ideas on this, or where I can find some numbers on this?
Thanks!

GoldenWood Farm · #2 02/16/08, 04:55 PM

I have no clue what the normal range is (I know..bad me) but you said step up your worming program. Cocci isn't worms but is a parasite and a nasty one at that. You will need sulfa meds or something like that to treat the goats with it.

Here is a great article on cocci.
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/co...cidiosis.shtml

I treat my kids using sulfadimethoxine every gosh I can't remember....21 days? This year I am trying something different though. I am using herbal wormer and seeing if that also helps keep my cocci numbers down in the goats.

We shall see..

Justine

moonspinner · #3 02/16/08, 05:20 PM

I too, would like to know the numbers range. I use the inexpensive Sulmet labeled for poultry and it has been effective for me in all but one or two cases. You need to get on a cocci outbreak asap before those numbers spike into the danger territory. I've known of too many deaths from this.

meleahbee · #4 02/16/08, 05:27 PM

I just started using an herbal wormer on them today. I wanted to get a fecal done on them first so I could track the effectiveness of it. So we'll see how that goes.

Anyway, I've treated them with Corid before and that stuff is awful! I'm supposed to add it to their water, but when it's in there they don't drink water! Even if I add a little salt to their food!

Do any coccidiostat meds come in any form other than a water additive? My goats were not fooled by that stuff....

jBlaze · #5 02/16/08, 05:39 PM

We used the albon stuff from teh vet. We used a syringe without needle and just put it in the back of thier mouth. It was something like 1 cc per 50 lbs for 2 days, then 1 cc per 100 lbs for 3 days. I am sure that is NOT the correct dose, but it was to that effect, easy to do. I hate cocci too! It's just always there lurking. Good luck, remember, we were all new to goats at one time. :-)

BlueHeronFarm · #6 02/16/08, 05:43 PM

We use Di-Methox 40% - we drench it. It's stiull nasty and they don't likeit, but it is less volume than you would give with Sulmet or similar.

I'm not sure what the threshold number is. We treat kids, as routine, but have never seen problems in our adults yet.

MayLOC · #7 02/16/08, 06:07 PM

It is not recommended to add to the goats drinking water.

Decoxx you can add to the drinking bottles/lambar. all the other one you syringe into their mouths.

It is just to variable to add it to their water to be accurate enough. (who drinks more, who less, ect.) and like you said they don't even drink it willingly.

I think you will find more success by syringing their individual doses into their mouths.

check here: http://dairygoatinfo.com/ under goat keeping 101 for dosing .

fishhead · #8 02/16/08, 06:54 PM

I added a bit of table sugar when I had to syringe it into the mouths of mine. That made a big difference in how much they fought me.

jordan · #9 02/16/08, 07:03 PM

I used Molly's Herbal Wormer starting at 2 weeks old for my babies last year and didn't have a single issue with cocci. You should see results very quickly if that's what you're using. I would recommend that you also have some of her Immune Support Tonic on hand as well to help boost their immune systems while the wormer has a chance to do it's job.
Very few of the cocci meds are effective any longer. My vet doesn't consider Sulmet worth the money spent. We tried every one in '06 when we couldn't get rid of cocci, none worked and we were jacking up the dosages too (at my vets recommendation)

Teacupliz · #10 02/16/08, 07:54 PM

Each year is a different game with cocci- Weather amount of kids, stress. The vet said 5000 can be normal for goats. Are they sick, have the runs? I use sulmet when we have a out break, Vet also said to stick to one treatment till it works not longer in the herd- so if it stops to work you have options. Sulmet is the least harmful and have worked for me still after 10 years. I feed a medicated grain- so not many problem unless I have a lot of kids in one stall. I bottle raise so it may be different if kids are on the dam with the mothers and older goats. If I goat is real bad I use SMZ- family is great if they do not finish thier meds. They are then goat meds. :O)
If you use corrid you need to give Vitamin B- as it robs it from the goat gutt and can cause Polio.

liz in NY
Teacup Farm

meleahbee · #11 02/16/08, 08:02 PM

They're not sick at all. Nice looking berries coming out of them, they're full of energy. BUT, we think their dam died of coccidiosis and we had 2 goats die of nervous coccidiosis (which was awful, btw. It looked like they ran into a "wall of death", where they both fell over in the same spot, had a 1 minute seizure, and died - this was when I first started goating too...

) So, we really have a problem with it in all my goats.

I don't know why the vet said to put in the water. I knew that didn't make sense

I started using Molly's Herbal Wormer today and I have the immune support stuff so I will do that, too.

How long should I try Molly's h.w. before re-testing their fecals?

So, I guess my plan of action, since they're not sick right now, is to try Molly's for a while, re-test, then if it's still not gone, use a coccidiostat?

Sound reasonable? I'm still so new at all of this.....

Teacupliz · #12 02/16/08, 08:06 PM

I guess I would treat them then- it can not hurt- Herbal stuff is grea to help build amunnity. I have a freind who used all herbal wormers then lost a goat to worms. Now, she test the fecal and worms chemically when she needs too.
Liz

jordan · #13 02/16/08, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meleahbee

They're not sick at all. Nice looking berries coming out of them, they're full of energy. BUT, we think their dam died of coccidiosis and we had 2 goats die of nervous coccidiosis (which was awful, btw. It looked like they ran into a "wall of death", where they both fell over in the same spot, had a 1 minute seizure, and died - this was when I first started goating too...

) So, we really have a problem with it in all my goats.

I don't know why the vet said to put in the water. I knew that didn't make sense

I started using Molly's Herbal Wormer today and I have the immune support stuff so I will do that, too.

How long should I try Molly's h.w. before re-testing their fecals?

So, I guess my plan of action, since they're not sick right now, is to try Molly's for a while, re-test, then if it's still not gone, use a coccidiostat?

Sound reasonable? I'm still so new at all of this.....

I had fecals done on my goats right before I started with Molly's, (I did not use any other wormer or cocci preventative first) and tested again 6 weeks later with great results. Had another test done 4 weeks after that and the difference in the 10 weeks was amazing! I had cut the dosage in half initially, figuring I had smaller goats, and after the 6 week retest (if I recall correctly there were 5 strongyls in the whole herd and a unbelievably low cocci number) I increased to the full dosage for the next 4 weeks.

So long as your kids are not scouring, in good health and energy, I would just use the recommended dosage on the herbal. You should see a significant decrease in a 4 week test and swear by this stuff after an 8 week test. Give the ones with higher numbers 1 cc per 10 lbs of the IST once a day to keep them from deteriorating (increase to 3 x's daily if they start to scour or lose energy).

Steffiej · #14 02/16/08, 10:14 PM

I thought I read somewhere that the parasite itself is always present, because it's in the dirt, similiar to the strep germ and humans. I use the dimethox as well, in the syringe w/o a needle.

moonspinner · #15 02/17/08, 09:31 AM

Maybe the meds have different effectiveness in different areas of the country. Sulmet has worked incredibly well for me in my seven years of goatkeeping. I do have to say, I tried medicated feed for my kids last year and not a single outbreak. However, it was an extremely dry spring so that might have contributed.
Have heard mostly negatives on Corrid from goaters, though one of my vets says he goes for it first thing. That might be for cattle though. Another vet said Corrid requires more of it to do the job.
And yeah absolutely, you need to drench it full strength. That mixing in the water won't do much good.

dkdairygoats · #16 02/17/08, 10:40 AM

Corid does work in goats, but the problem is they require much higher doses than cows and it also causes problems with the Vitamin B levels. Usually they recommend supplementing it when using Corid (amprolium). I use Albon (sulfadimethoxime), I think it's easier, tastes better, and is more effective even though it is not labeled for goats. I have not heard of an herbal dewormer that is effective on coccidia, most of them are for roundworms, but then I haven't done much research on it either. The one time I tried it my goats wouldn't eat it.

By the way, as far a Corid goes...you can mix it stronger and give it to them daily with a syringe instead of mixing it in their water.