HELP! I cannot milk this wild goat!!!

MamaDee · #1 02/14/08, 08:35 AM

I am at a loss with this wild doe. I have broken goat's on the milk stand before, but I've never had one like this. Ever. I can get her on the stand with much effort (which is a huge feat in itself and I am 5 months pregnant). Once there she bucks so wildly I can barely get hobbles on her. My son tried to hold her legs so I can get the hobbles on and even that is almost impossible. She lays down flat. I cannot get her up. When she does get up, even with hobbles, she is so violent, you cannot properly milk her out. I know she has alot--it is streaming out of her teats. I have never had a goat cause such a violent scene on the stand. She is a FF, purebred Nubian with great milk lines.

But I think she is holding her milk, in addition to all of this. When I do get my hand on her teats, half the time I can't get much out.

I hold one bowl up next to her teats and try to milk with the other. I don't even have dillusions of saving her milk to drink right now, I'm just trying to get enough out of her to keep her healthy.

This morning there were 3 small bits of blood on the strip cup and her milk is pink. I'm ready to give her away, but I can't even do that. What would I say, "Anybody want this ****** goat who you'd have to break on the stand, and, oh yeah, she has mastitis?!!!"

What do I do?!!!

Dee

diiin bi

susanne · #2 02/14/08, 08:50 AM

i would check her for mastitis. she maybe is in pain.
when you have her on the milkstand, let your son push her down at the middle of her back. she will learn that she has to stand for you. is this the doe that just freshened?

dosthouhavemilk · #3 02/14/08, 09:28 AM

I have a 5 year old doe who simply does not work on a stand...without being strapped down. I tie each hind leg to a leg of the milk stand. Enough back that she can stand comfortable but cannot pull the legs forward enough to kick. She hops for a little bit but soon quits because being strapped to the stand it hurts when she hops and she realizes just how futile it is. It limits her movement.
In addition with your doe I would put a bucket under her chest to disuade her from laying down. So she is trapped to the stand and not able to lay down. Then just milk her. She can't have any option. If she won't let down, spend some time away...like ten to fifteen minutes doing other chores, come back and try again. She has to learn what is expected of her. Make sure she can't hurt herself while you are away or just sit there for that time. I can perch on the edge of my stand, but I'm not 5 months pregnant either.

My jumper gets milked only if I need to relieve pressure. I started trying to break her at too old of an age and since I don't need her milk I haven't seen the point in fighting with her. Her 2 yr old FF has similar manners. Her 1 yr old FF has much better stand manners. If I worked with her long enough I'm sure she would come to understand it all.

NYSaanen · #4 02/14/08, 10:16 AM

Some goats just seem to start out this way. Right now it seems like a test of wills, and your will needs to be stronger than hers.

While checking for mastitis would be a good thing, it may not be mastitis, yet.
It sounds as if she is quite full. After they freshen, the amount of milk they produce increases over time. This causes the udder to expand. Sometimes, just the action of the udder enlarging can cause tiny blood vessels to rupture. The result shows up in the milk.

The fuller she becomes, the more the udder expands, thus have a greater chance of getting a ruptured vessel. Also, this can become painful.

When you say you can't get much out of her when you do get ahold of her.....

Is the stream of milk that you are getting strong, like you would normally expect, or is it just a trickle? (maybe kind of like a pinhole in a garden hose?) If it is just a trickle, it is possible that the teat canal is blocked by a blood clot. This would need to be worked out, unfortunately by using extra force which will make matters even worse as to the behavior.

Keep us posted.

jBlaze · #5 02/14/08, 11:03 AM

She is a nubian. In my experience they are always the ones with the least intelegence. Sorry, but true.
She needs to trust you, and it sounds like she is terrified. Give up on restraint and dicipline, just love her and coo to her, pet her. I know this is very hard when you probably can't stand the sight of her. I've been there for sure! Get her on the stand lots, not just to milk her, love her, give her treats. Get her to understand that the stand is not just a place of torture. Since she is a nubian this can be easy, they love attention, very sweet goats. Maybe get her calmed, milk a little (holding the bowl of course) then give her another treat, and let her go for a while. Bring her back in an hour or two and do the same again. It may take you a day of milking her a little every few hours to help her get over her fear. Tedious for sure, but it can really help. I understand time problems, I have a full time jub, you just gotta do the best you can, It really only takes a short time of working at it to gain their trust. Getting her to trust you is the most important. This is probably harder if she has mastitis, and getting her milked out is important. I wonder if you can give her bute or something else for pain? I know well how much it freaks me out when they lay down on the stand, and I have only ever had nubians do that, makes you want to kick them, of course I would not, but wish I could.

Gain her trust and she should be a great goat. Best of luck on that. Sorry this is sorta rambly, hope you get the idea anyhow.

sammyd · #6 02/14/08, 06:36 PM

Our lamancha cross would do the same thing.
I would milk her with one hand and hold one of her back legs up with the other.
It took some time but she tamed down.
No animal is going to let down if she is scared or mad.
If she doesn't shape up I would look into replacing her.

Cloverbud · #7 02/14/08, 08:05 PM

I don't have any suggestions for you, but I have plenty of sympathy! I have an elaborate system of ropes dangling from my stand. Even so, I have to milk from behind, using my head to keep the wench from sitting in the pail.

Tadpole · #8 02/14/08, 08:39 PM

I had a goat that just did the same thing and pink milk for 2 years( each time she freshened). Also very bad on the stand too. All i did was just keep talking to her and she settled down fast. Also the pink milk thing with mine was she had 2 hard deliverys and this year she was just fine and gave birth great no pink milk. You might try to milk her very gentle till the pink milk goes away. I even had to use a tube like thing to just drain her milk and not milk her for a little so you might try that. It's very easy to do, I think there was two on a pack stainless steel like a bug needle that I used. I know the feeling been there and done that too. but, don't give up on her her bag is sore and she will settle down with a little TLC beleave me.

susieM · #9 02/14/08, 11:22 PM

I had one that would bite...hard! It hurt!

goatkid · #10 02/14/08, 11:43 PM

Some goats are harder than others to break to the milk stand. I've had to contort myself to some odd positions (such as sitting under her with my legs holding her in place) to get them trained. Of course, I wasn't pregnant. so this may be a bit more of a challenge for you. I haven't yet encountered a goat I haven't been able to train. I am not always the most patient person, so I consider these goats my teachers. They are simply frightened and don't yet know what is expected of them. Also, right after freshening, their teats are sometimes tender. One trick is to not feed any grain, except on the milk stand. Most of my goats also love animal crackers, so when they do behave, they get a reward.

CookingPam777 · #11 02/15/08, 08:23 AM

I know this may seem rough but I think it would be worth it if you manage to get her all hooked up on the milk stand leave her there for a while (15 minutes or so) till she calms down. I have found talking to them helps a bunch. Also petting and loving them. I am sure she would have to calm down at some point. When she does give her a treat. Weather from being tired or whatever she would learn I am not going anywhere till I get milked. I have one that I think will NOT like it and I am going to leave her up there for training when it gets built. Maybe for 15 minutes or so. Give her a treat show her she gets rewarded to behave. I have found with animals being consisent is key! We have a very well behaved dog for the most part and I was very consisent with her. I know a lot of dogs that never learn to sit from stubbornness. So I would have a treat and tell her to sit she wouldn't of coarse. So I would gently put her in a sitting postition. And wouldn't give the treat till she sat on her own with command. Gently show her how if she didn't. And she eventually did. It tooks 15 minutes for her to realize this is sit and if I don't do it I will not get that treat. Just let her know she won't get off that milk stand without being milked. There is a story about a horse that had to go up hill he wouldn't. So some one rode him part way and the horse would stop cause it was thirsty. There was a water thing at the top. So they stayed there. Then the horse realized I am not going to get that water I want and have to stand in this hot beating sun if I don't get up that hill. And today he goes up hills very well. I hope all goes really well for you! Please update us on how she does. Also please let us know if you found anything that helped. Because maybe this won't work for me with my goat. I don't know it was just an idea I had. Tell her I told her to be a good little goat hehehe!

MamaDee · #12 02/15/08, 10:37 AM

Thank you everyone for your advice.

She is a bit better today. I think the hobbles freaked her out...so I stopped with them and just petted her and talked to her. She is o.k. now for 5 minutes or so and then knocks her grain down and gets more wild. So today I just kept going, talking, talking but did not give her the grain back. Once she settled down, I gave her grain.

She's still the hardest one I've delt with, but there may be hope. Her milk was barely pink today and no blood clots. I think she's just so full--and that's where the blood came from. Even when you milk her all the way out, here udder looks full.

Dee

whodunit · #13 02/15/08, 10:45 AM

I have my girls feed treats one at a time and pet the goat. Seems to help keep her mind off me milking her.

I feel for you!

CookingPam777 · #14 02/15/08, 01:02 PM

Glad things went better!

Cloverbud · #15 02/15/08, 03:43 PM

Today must be a day for successes! I milked Carly without the ropes and didn't have to boost her out of the pail.

I hope milking this rodeo doe continues to improve for you!

nehimama · #16 02/16/08, 10:44 AM

Good for you, Cloverbud! It's such a fun and interesting challenge, teaching an FF to stand nicely for milking. I have one, still have to hobble one hind leg and watch the other closely. Just about got "foot in pail" disease this AM - LOL!

Hang in there, MamaDee! She'll come around yet.

NeHi

NYSaanen · #17 02/16/08, 12:42 PM

Just a little something to add from my own experiences.

FF here rarely see a milking stand prior to freshening. In fact typically the only time they see/ experience it is when they are in for hoof trimming. Not a memorable event for them. Always sems to make them nervous when they are brought to the stand, they think they know what is coming.

So putting a FF on the stand when she expects to struggle with a trimming, and having just gone through the normal, albeit strange experience of "what is this coming out my back end", their nerves are a little frayed and now you are touching them in ways you never have before!

We will usually start, maybe one week to one month PRIOR to kidding, of bringing them in and feeding them on the stand so they can get accustomed to it being an OK experience. Once they are comfortable with eating there, an occasional "check" of the udder will help get them acclimated to that also. Seems to make their early milking experiences a little less of a struggle.

nehimama · #18 02/16/08, 04:44 PM

I agree, NYSaanen! Mine are ALWAYS eager to jump up on that milkstand. It's where all the good stuff is. I've also handled udders, but milking is a whole other story

It does help a LOT, though, to acclimate them to the milkstand beforehand.

NeHi

coondog · #19 02/16/08, 11:01 PM

Glad to see she is doing better, but one more suggestion that might help too. Last Spring when I had a bad tempered goat (1/2 nubian and 1/2 alpine mix) we started out having to drag her to the milk stand and eventually she learned to jump on the milk stand on her own, but she would still try to kick the milk over every chance she got. I went to using those big cups from McDonalds or the big gulp cups and doing one side at a time. It worked out so much better, and seemed still as fast as milking her the other way, but then when she would try to kick the cup over, she couldn't succeed. Her milk tasted so good, so it was worth the trouble, but it sure is a deal when they won't cooperate. Sometimes they seem so stubborn.