Quad kids, nanny died

[Zookeeper]

We are very small-time, and new to goats...just bought 2 registered bred Nubians about a month ago, to keep for milk for our family. So please don't blast me if we did something stupid...but I wish I knew exactly what happened.

Saturday, our 2nd nanny to kid went into a long and difficult labor which resulted in delivery of 4 kids (had to call our vet to help) but mama never recovered...after working with her all weekend, she died Monday morning as the vet was coming to take her to the hospital (I had no idea I had become so attached to these goats but I squawled like a little baby). Both the vet and the lady who sold us the goats said we can't be sure what her exact cause of death was, but I just want to know if there was anything else we should have been doing, knowing she probably had 3-4 kids in her (she was HUGE)...just for future reference with our other goats...

Any ideas??? Something to help us learn from this, or to ease my mind that there was just nothing we could have done?

Here is her picture:



And here are the quads:



And here are the other twin kids...the brown one's a buck I'm gonna wether and teach to pull a cart and pack...

[BlueHeronFarm]

Hard to say without symptoms.

Was there any foul odor indicating an infection?
Was there a lot of blood when she kidded?
I would think if there was a risk of infection, your vet would have known and would have given antibiotics, though.

Did you ever take her temperature?
Milk fever would show as a low temp, any infection as a fever.
Those would be the two most obvious suspects.

Did you worm her after she kidded? They are very suceptible to parasite overload after kidding.
That's just my brain dump.


...beautiful kids, though. I am so sorry about your doe.

[fishhead]

Sorry you lost her. It is tough to not be able to make them better but if the vet couldn't I wouldn't expect a new goat owner to save her.

More info might help.

Diet? Worming? Her Temperature after kidding? Minerals?

[MisFitFarm]

I hate to tell you this, but a lot of times there just aren't any answers. Everytime I think we have goats figured out, I get a reality check!

As the others asked, when was she last wormed? Wat kind of a diet was she on? Dont worry about the number of kids, it's normal for them to have that many.

I'm very sorry about losing the doe, I know how it is. It doesn't take them long at all to steal our hearts. And believe me, it never gets any easier to lose one. But I personally feel the joys far outweigh the bad times! Be thankful for those four gorgeous babies, you are very lucky to have them.

[Zookeeper]

Didn't take her temp. No foul odor, normal amount of blood.

She "spaced out" the way I've heard they do when in labor...the day before...and stayed that way throughout labor...never regained her normal demeanor...cleaned the first kid but after that ignored the others, was already sick with whatever-it-was, IMO...after first kid came, labor seemed to stop...no contractions, no distress, she just looked like she was "spaced out" and resting, but ignoring her kid...that's when we realized we needed to call the vet. Took her an hour or two to get here. So her labor was actually drawn out over several hours after all was said and done.

When the vet left she thought the doe was going to be okay, just tired. She just got weaker and weaker and never recuperated. We gave her calcium paste, electrolytes, B12...when the vet came back she was going to give her IV fluids...

[susanne]

my guess is that this doe had hypocalcemia. they will stop having contractions because of severe calcium deficiency.
what did you feed her in her late stage of pregnancy? what kind of minerals did she had? did you worm her the day she came to your farm?

[deafgoatlady]

I am so sorry to hear that! It is so sad. But The mom looked like she was soo HAPPY.. But dont feel bad. Becuz U called the vet asap. I am glad that U called becuz some people dont do that.. I dont know the answer. But ur quads is sooo CUTE and look soo HEALTHY!

[Zookeeper]

Yes we wormed her when we got her. Previous owner kept great records and had her on a regular worming program there too.

Diet consisted of a grain mixture mixed by a feed mill...DH gets it mixed and to be honest, I don't know the analysis of it. She also has a mineral block that we were told would be okay for goats...but maybe it is the wrong thing...she also got hay free choice, and a little alfalfa, a little bread every day with her grain...

Hypocalcemia was what the vet thought too...thus the calcium paste given to her over the weekend...

What should have been done to prevent this, if that's the case? Do I need to buy a "goat chow" instead of the feed mill mix? Different minerals?

[ozark_jewels]

The "little alfalfa" is probably the key phrase. With a doe carrying quads, she was very calcium deficient. That caused the lack of contractions, and the fading death. As others have said, Hypocalcemia. Alfalfa is the best form of calcium and with the load she was carrying she should have had free-choice.
Don't beat yourself up over it...we all have to learn and some lessons are harder than others. You will know next time.
And now for the question thats been plaguing me since you first posted....what sex are the quads??

[Alice In TX/MO]

You aren't feeding the babies milk replacer, are you?

[Zookeeper]

Yes, we are feeding them milk replacer...why?

I know I have gotten many, MANY differing opinions on what to bottle-feed kids...and we went with the one most recommended...the milk replacer...we are able to mix our other nanny's excess milk with the replacer...

Do I need to do something different?

One of the kids has now already died (a few minutes ago), we are following everything everyone has told us to do but we are sure not batting 1000 here...but the other kids seem fine...

[dkdairygoats]

Milk replacer seems to cause enterotoxemia. I don't know why or how. I know several people on here have had trouble with it. I had two doe kids that were 2 wks old and on replacer die, severe bloat and were dead within 3 hours. I can't prove it was the milk replacer but I have never had this problem since and I feed fresh milk. I wouldn't risk it.

[nehimama]

I'm so sorry for your loss. It is truly heartbreaking. I looked at the photo you posted of your doe, and she looked so happy; I nearly cried.

To echo Emily, I'm also thinking Hypocalcemia. I don't find alfalfa hay easy to come by in these parts, so all my pregnant and milking does get alfalfa pellets free choice. They get grain only when on the milkstand to be milked.

I have found it truly helpful to have this forum and a nearby goat mentor to keep me from learning things the hard way.

Please, please, don't beat yourself up over this. We are all new at one time, and some of us unfortunately learn our goatkeeping lessons the hard way.

The quads are beautiful and healthy-looking!

NeHi

[Zookeeper]

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

The "little alfalfa" is probably the key phrase. With a doe carrying quads, she was very calcium deficient. That caused the lack of contractions, and the fading death. As others have said, Hypocalcemia. Alfalfa is the best form of calcium and with the load she was carrying she should have had free-choice.
Don't beat yourself up over it...we all have to learn and some lessons are harder than others. You will know next time.
And now for the question thats been plaguing me since you first posted....what sex are the quads??

They were 2 bucks and 2 does...one of the bucks has died.

[Zookeeper]

By fresh milk...do you mean fresh, raw goat's milk?

What if I can't get that?

[dkdairygoats]

Yes. I have heard people using cow's milk....either fresh or vit. D from the store. I have not done that as I've always had plenty of goat milk to go around. Anyone else know how to feed that?

[GoldenWood Farm]

Zookeeper I posted on your other thread but I will post here also in response to your question on fresh milk. I don't know exactly what they meant by that but if I was you I would go to the store and get those kids on some Vit. D milk. That is what I have done with some of my kids when I didn't have enough milk and it worked wonderful for them. I really hate to use replacer as I haven't had good luck with it nor have I heard of people having good luck with it.

Maybe try contacting your local vet and see if they know anyone with any milking cows or milking does? I know my local vet has a list of contacts of people who can supply fresh cows milk or goats milk. Worth a shot.

Justine

[ozark_jewels]

Oh milk replacer....... Do you know anyone you can get fresh cows milk from?? It raises wonderfully healthy kids. If not, get whole milk from the store. Milk replacer is not the best choice for goats, especially as your new to this. I'm sorry you got such advice.

[FD2N4P]

i'm very new to this. i had my doe kidd last yr and i used purina replacer for the first 3 weeks. i just about lost her. vet told me to keep her on it and others around me. thats when someone told me about ht sight and i talked to ms viki. she throw up and watery poop..she told me to talke her off replacer and use whole milk. almost a yr later she has grown and doing very well..................sue

[susanne]

milk replacer is the reason why so many kids die each year. so sad.
if you are living near emily you could get fresh milk. because i know her cows are very healthy. i would not buy fresh milk from another farmer because jones also is transmittable to goats and unfortunately present in many cow herds. if you have somebody near by with goats milk, feed that to your kds but pasteurize it for cae prevention. the best thing for you would be to get store bought cows milk. i hope you can get the other three kids through. did they had colostrum?
is your second doe pregnant too? start feeding her alfa, hay or pellets, but add slowly every day.
a doe that is down with hypocalcemia like your doe was, needs CMPK injections every 4 hours until she is up again.