Buck Attack?

thaiblue12 · #1 01/19/08, 02:55 PM

A lady just called me and asked me a goat behavior question. She sold 2 pygmy fainter bottle babies in April 07. A male and a female who have been together the entire time and allowed to breed too early. He was suppose to be banded and the buyer did not do it.
The doe was giving birth today and the buck attacked her killing the baby. He also attacked the doe and any humans who walked into the pen.
I have no idea why he was allowed to remain in there, I am not sure of the set-up. They are now asking if someone wants him. Personally I would not take him and do not know of anyone who would want a goat that behaves that way.
The lady wants to know if he attacked because he thought she was in pain while giving birth. Seems odd to me but then again I do not have much birthing experience.
Anyone have an idea why this happened? Will he attack again?
Thanks

He has never been violent before today and has always been friendly. Doe is at the vet being treated. Not sure how bad the attack was.

RiverPines · #2 01/19/08, 03:01 PM

He isnt killing on purpose, he is wanting to breed! Birthing odor is a turn on.

I had a doe with a very passive buck but when she unexpectedly birthed, he would of killed her in his determination. Luckily she was an experienced mom and drew him away from where the kid was and that we got out there in time to rescue her and the kid from one determined buck! He wanted know one in that pen except his doe who was not ready to breed again.

He is in the buck pen now with the other bucks and back to his sweet nature.

Mom and kid are doing great a kidding pen, out of the cold.

**mygoat** · #3 01/19/08, 03:42 PM

Sounds to me like that buck is headed toward the dinner table! That buck shouldn't have his testicles and if dangerously aggressive, it isn't worth keeping alive. It's probably a training issue. All goats need to learn basic manners and socialized. Bucks can be hard to handle during breeding season and so should be especially worked with and taught who is boss. I believe most if not all aggressive goats are the result of not being trained properly.

I won't tolerate extremely aggressive goats, and will butcher one if I ever come across one.

fellini123 · #4 01/19/08, 04:16 PM

I would say it is just the smell that the doe is giving off smells to the buck like she is in season even though she isn't.
Im sure he didnt kill the baby on purpose just was trying to get to the momma. If he can be kept separate he will go back to acting like he used to.

Alice in virginia

Feral Nature · #5 01/19/08, 04:21 PM

I would think it was the hormones of birth that turned him on a wee bit much. A testosterone storm making waves. I won't tolerate aggressive behavior of that magnitude at all. if he were here he would be in the freezer or at least in line for it. He was not to even breed and now look at him. Let this be an example of why bucklings should be castrated early or at least separated early from females.

thaiblue12 · #6 01/19/08, 05:02 PM

I am glad I keep my buck in his own pen.

Apparently her 9 month old buck butted the doe and was trying to ride her while she was giving birth. She was scared and fainted and he was butting while she was down. I guess he wanted her up since he was in "the mood". The baby died while she was coming out of the birth canal. She was partially out and must have gotten hit while he was trying to get in.
So it seems that your advice is right on the money to me.
She told the seller that she wants to find him a new home and not have him put down. I say if she will not put him down she should castrate him and deal with it. I would not pass on this problem to others.
I do not eat goat, but I sure as heck do not tolerate aggressive animals of any kind.

picklespickles · #7 01/19/08, 05:21 PM

it is weird to me when people think they're being nice like that. i have neighbors who kept one dog who killed another of their dogs and now they all have to be penned up to keep away from the bad one. you need to take care of things when they happen.

whether or not the animal is killing on prupose the humans who are in charge need to do the right thing. since they failed to prevent it happening then they've created a totally different problem and now need to take care of that one.

nehimama · #8 01/19/08, 06:32 PM

"She told the seller that she wants to find him a new home and not have him put down."

Ya know, this irks me. Folks wind up with a problem animal, either through ignorance or stupidity, and then want that animal to have a GOOD HOME and not put down. It seems to me they're trying to get rid of a problem, with all sorts of strings attached.

NeHi

P.S. If it were MY buck, it'd already be in the freezer. No, wait. The situation would not have occurred in the first place!

P.P.S. If a seller wants an animal wethered, DO NOT depend on the buyer to do it ! ! ! !

P.P.P.S. Not hollerin' at anyone here. Preachin' to the choir, don'tchya know?

thaiblue12 · #9 01/19/08, 09:27 PM

On Monday I will find out his fate. I truly hope that is she tries to re-home him that she will be honest about why.
I hope she takes the buck with her to the vet on Monday when she picks up the doe and has him castrated.
He might very well be fine after he is neutered and go back to sitting in her lap and etc, but she is scared of him right now and wants him gone asap.

fishhead · #10 01/19/08, 10:16 PM

Is he a bad buck or just a buck in the wrong place at the wrong time because the owners didn't put him in a separate pen?

Carolyn · #11 01/19/08, 10:41 PM

I was devestated today, this happened to us this morning. But it was a wether, we figured Betty was due in about a week, The temps dropped drastically going from the 20's and 30's to - 20 and -30 so DD2 put the wether in the same building as the does. He was a big big Sanaan Nubian X with horns, Yep HORNS, I am so embarrassed that I rescued him 4 yrs ago. He wasn't agressive to the does, but when DD2 went out, she found Betty dead with a broken neck!! She was a non registered but purebred Nubian, poor attachments, but milked like a dream at least 12lbs a day and milked for about a yr and a half without kidding. She would have been 7 this spring and this would have been her 3rd kidding. She had attitude, but I have a waiting list for her kids because of her milking history. I am sick about it, I don't know what I was thinking. He was a rescue wether, he was cut, not banded, I don't know if that made a difference. We had never had trouble with him. I feel so bad for her!!! But he will be gone!! We are going to destroy him!! My son and my brother didn't want to destroy a healthly animal, but he will not be around. I have one more doe that is due, she is just starting to bag, so I figure I have about 3 weeks to go. What kills me is I have sold the couple of doe kids she had, I was hoping for one this year for a replacement, but too late now. I have been in shock all day, I know that she is "just a goat", but I feel stupid and responsible. Carolyn

Carolyn · #12 01/19/08, 10:44 PM

When we got him, they were together and never had a problem, but she was bigger that he was until this last year, and in the summer the does and the wether were together without a problem. I was sooo dumb.

. Carolyn

picklespickles · #13 01/19/08, 10:52 PM

oh, carolyn. i am so sorry this happened.

picklespickles · #14 01/19/08, 10:55 PM

hang in there. we might have all made a similar mistake. that is a very drastic temp change. hugs.

Carolyn · #15 01/19/08, 11:08 PM

Yes, but I should have know better, especially this close to her kidding. I know that life goes on, but animals depend on us for everything and to use our knowledge to help and protect them. When something like this happens, I think that I should get rid of them, cause my mistake (that I should have know better than to do) cost her life. But I guess I will plug along and hopefully feel better tomorrow.I feel like an irresponsible animal person. Carolyn

picklespickles · #16 01/19/08, 11:56 PM

hi. i posted another reply but i guess it didn't stick.

i was just saying again that with a temp change like that i could have easily done something similar.

Carolyn · #17 01/20/08, 12:06 AM

Thank you, we were worried about the temps and add a wind, we really thought that body heat would help them, we had done it before, but not this close to kidding. Carolyn

thaiblue12 · #18 01/20/08, 09:48 AM

Oh Carolyn I am sorry. I could have made that very same mistake thinking that since my wether never reacts to girls in heat he would be fine and add to body heat. I will not allow him in the barn during any kiddings.
The lady who had the buck attack that morning has never been a bad buck. He was a bottle baby and sits in her lap and is good natured. But during this he attacked her and her neighbor who tried to help her. She is now scared of him and instead of trying to workout this problem is looking to dump him. Like I said maybe castrating him would make it all fine again but she seems to want to get rid of him asap. I would try it before I decided his final fate if I cared for him that much, but her fear is making her desicion.

BethW · #19 01/20/08, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

Is he a bad buck or just a buck in the wrong place at the wrong time because the owners didn't put him in a separate pen?

Very fair question.

Starsmom · #20 01/20/08, 02:01 PM

My opinion he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Granted, now that he was aggressive and killed, he may not be the same as he was. That is something that needs to be decided by the goat owner by observation and soul searching. Sometimes an animal is wonderful until they kill, even if not intended, then for some reason it changes them and they can kill again, on purpose the next time.