how do you supplement copper? and where do you get it?

cathleenc · #1 01/09/08, 03:20 PM

I swear I've just searched Hoeggers and Caprine supply by the key word 'copper' and found nothing that looks like a copper supplement. Found general loose mineral mixes, yes, found copper for treating liver flukes. But not just a copper supplement to address copper decifiency.

What do you use? Where do you get it? How come I can't seem to find it?

ty!
Cathy

fishhead · #2 01/09/08, 03:21 PM

Search copper bolus.

cathleenc · #3 01/09/08, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

Search copper bolus.

I did. Nothing. Nada. No copper bolus.

deafgoatlady · #4 01/09/08, 03:41 PM

It is there on Hoegger. It is called copper sulfate. Try again.. I bought them from hoegger..

cathleenc · #5 01/09/08, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafgoatlady

It is there on Hoegger. It is called copper sulfate. Try again.. I bought them from hoegger..

that's the one that says its for liver fluke treatment. Confusing. And it's not a bolus. Confusing.

BlueHeronFarm · #6 01/09/08, 04:05 PM

I buy Copasure copper boluses. Search that. They are calf sized, though, so I have to repackage them in smaller gelatin capsules. I buy those from Valley Vet.

goatkid · #7 01/09/08, 04:06 PM

I know a woman named Sharon who is on the dairygoatinfo website was selling copper bolusing stuff. I don't bolus mine. I feed them a goat mineral that contains copper.

deafgoatlady · #8 01/09/08, 04:11 PM

Okay. I use the sulfate becuz it is much safer if u dissolve it and drench it to the goats.. That what I do. Becuz i feel safe than useing bolusing..

BlueHeronFarm · #9 01/09/08, 04:11 PM

Cathleen-- are you certain your goats need additional copper? A lot of us talk about it here. I live in a VERY copper poor area, as proven by soil tests. I also have seen major signs of deficiency. What works for each owner may be different depending on the needs in their specific area.

Just thought I would throw that out there before you choose the bolus route. Many people need no additional copper, other than what can be found in a good loose mineral. For me, bolusing was the best way to correct serious deficiencies.

cathleenc · #10 01/09/08, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHeronFarm

Cathleen-- are you certain your goats need additional copper? A lot of us talk about it here. I live in a VERY copper poor area, as proven by soil tests. I also have seen major signs of deficiency. What works for each owner may be different depending on the needs in their specific area.

Just thought I would throw that out there before you choose the bolus route. Many people need no additional copper, other than what can be found in a good loose mineral. For me, bolusing was the best way to correct serious deficiencies.

I really appreciate you asking this. The answer - I am not sure.

Got to talk with a rep from a regional firm, Midwest Bio-Ag, that has a organic/biodynamic approach to both animals and land. He's tested my neighbor's soil just on the other side of the bluff we share and said that it was low on copper - that all the land in our area is low.

The goats we have continue to have parasite problems. I've read that low copper supplies decrease resistance.

In an earlier post today (someone else's) the op asked why her goat was scratching - Rose replied parasites and not enough copper. My fav goat is always doing full body scratches on anything she can find.

I provide free choice minerals. The goats hardly touch it. I'm wondering if the calf starter I use as part of their feed (which has some minerals in it) is satiating their minerals and leaving their copper untouched.

WWYD? I am just not sure. thanks, Cathy

Sweet Goats · #11 01/09/08, 09:56 PM

I use Sweet Lix Meat Makers. It is wonderful and it has a lot of copper, (ofr what they need)

collegeboundgal · #12 01/10/08, 01:02 AM

I just bought a bag of mineral today; the feed guy asked which one as they had many. he knew I have goats so kinda hinted at the cheap one that is around $6-8 for 50lbs (trying to be nice and save me money) but said that they also had one for $20 (50lbs) I looked at the copper content of each bag. the cheep ones minimum copper was 80 ppu while the $20 stuff was 1,200 ppu. guess which one I got. I don't remember what the numbers were for the rest off the top of my head as the copper was what made the choice. when I gave some to the goats they acted like they hadn't had minerals for years! dang near knocked me over to get at it.

-Melissa

jordan · #13 01/10/08, 01:49 AM

try this link for copper info
http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

for bolus info
http://www.u-sayranch.com/goats/copper.html

You can have your soil/hay tested by your ag extension office too.
Look at the condition of your goats to try to determine if they all need it (it may just be a few that actually do) and treat accordingly.
The itchies may be lice and the internal parasite problems could mean your chemical wormer simply isn't working. I live about 50 miles south of Dane Cty and have had excellent results with Molly's herbal wormer.
Not eating the minerals could mean they just don't like that particular brand!
I mix Kent goat mineral with Diamond V Yeast Culture DXP, and my goats eat it like candy. There are a few brands that mine just won't touch.
Good luck!

BlueHeronFarm · #14 01/10/08, 07:24 AM

The copper DOES help with worm burdens. We do our own fecals and so tested pretty often when we started bolusing. We were impressed at the difference. But using the right wormer is important too - be sure you use something that still works for your area. Ivermectin, for example, is ineffective in MANY areas where resistance has been bred into most all remaining worm populations.

I'm no expert, but I think I would go ahead with it, based on what you are saying about your soil tests.

I would look at both links that jordan posted - that info is fabulous. If you do end up bolusing, know that it is really not hard to do (but better with 2 people!) and that u-say ranch site walks you through making your boluses.

For us, this was the biggest improvement we have ever made in or overall condition.

cathleenc · #15 01/10/08, 08:47 AM

Blue Heron,
how do you feel about copper sulphate as the supplement, like Deafgoatlady uses? Copper sulfate is the most bio-available form of sulfur. Also, thanks so much, in the fecal test thread, for the link to that testing kit - off to order it this morning.

Jordan, thanks for the reminder about the county ag service. I totally forgot about that. And the copper links!

fishhead · #16 01/10/08, 09:04 AM

Definitely try a different brand of minerals. I switched this fall and it made a huge difference in how much they would eat.

DQ · #17 01/10/08, 09:16 AM

just wanted to address the calf starter question. animals consume mineral supplements based on salt craving. so it is certainly possible that your calf starter is providing enough salt and not enough of other minerals.

cathleenc · #18 01/10/08, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DQ

just wanted to address the calf starter question. animals consume mineral supplements based on salt craving. so it is certainly possible that your calf starter is providing enough salt and not enough of other minerals.

I'm thinking so, too. They don't touch the free salt nor the baking soda at all and barely use the minerals.

Darn. The calf starter is locally made and the freshest thing around.

southerngurl · #19 01/10/08, 09:31 AM

Check out this page: http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

Bolus is the way to go IMO. It seems to be the safest because it is slow released. The little copper rods lodge in the rumen and slowly break down over a period of months (about 4-5 months I believe) releasing their copper as they do.

The sulfate, as I understand goes right through the goat, about 90 percent is immediately excreted. It has to be done much more often than the boluses. And there is a risk, if you get it in the lungs it will kill them.

BlueHeronFarm · #20 01/10/08, 09:34 AM

I am not comfortable with the copper sulfate as anything other than a topical treatment for hoof rot.

If you check out the saanendoah link, she explains that oral preparations are rapidly excreted. Goats have really high metabolisms and I wouldn't want to keep dosing them over and over. We do bolusing once every 5-6 months.

With copper - just as with worming - there is a lot of info out there and just as many opinions. Eventually you have to decide what you are comfortable with. Beyond that, I think it is important to follow up after you make choices to see if they are working - otherwise it's all just voo doo.