Bully Queen

nc_mtn · #1 12/26/07, 09:54 PM

Back in Oct we went from 4 goats to 3 (we sold the "head" doe). The "new" "queen" if you will has from day one bossed the other doe and buck around. I'm not sure if because food is scarce (they have plenty of hay but cold weather killed all the green stuff) or what but she has became more forceful lately. This is the same goat that a few weeks back got into the chicken feed. She has been butting the other girl around hard enough to fall over. I know some of this is normal behavior but I think it is far beyond this point. I have thought about fencing in another area next to the pasture for the bully. What else can I do? I don't want to sell her yet because we're hoping to expand this summer and have some kids off her.

Our (bulliED) Nubian/Boar doe is about 3 years old now and we've had her since Aug. We got her from a couple that only had 2 goats, her and her daughter. She has pretty much been alone until we got her. I think this has something to do with not "fighting" back. She has to be my favorite goat of the 3 so I would really like to keep her.

Thanks

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #2 12/26/07, 10:03 PM

The problem is that most bully does have bully daughters, you do breed for temperment in your herd. Some does simply don't make good queen's, it's odd that with the buck in the pen with them that he doesn't put and end to her attitude. Is he really young? Do all 3 have horns, disbudded bucks won't take on horned does. If she has horns think about removing them so you can keep her, taking away her weapons really gives them an attitude adjustment. I would seperate her if you are keeping her, so the other doe can saftely kid. Vicki

jordan · #3 12/26/07, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

The problem is that most bully does have bully daughters, you do breed for temperment in your herd. Vicki

So true (much to my disgust

). I had a doe here with excellent genetics and a beautiful udder, who was just plain old nasty mean to the other goats. She would go out of her way to attack them. Her daughter (who started out a sweety) went the same direction by the time she hit two. Sold her. Now HER daughter at a yr and a 1/2, is starting to do the exact same thing! She will be sold after kidding in the spring too. I bred her to a buck that comes from almost comatose laid back lines, so I'm hoping to break the cycle. All of them were great with people though.
The funny thing is, I have the full sister to the original doe, a herd queen who manages to maintain order with a look. All her kids have been (and still are) sweethearts

Wanted to add, the granddaughter (that will be going in the spring) was pulled at birth and bottle fed.

RiverPines · #4 12/27/07, 11:48 AM

I have one of those bullies. She is nasty to all the others no matter what their age, sex or size. She guards all food even though theres more than enough for everyone.
When she isnt eating she stands by the hay pile and tries to keep everyone away.
The only way there is peace is if one of us is out there with the goats.
She moves away from people.

She is the goat from hell and marked for freezer camp. I just wont deal with bad behaved goats. I have plenty more to do besides baby sit goats with attitude, and I have plenty of well mannered goats.

HazyDay · #5 12/27/07, 12:59 PM

Not always will they get it. I have a doe, who every breeder had her dam and was deemed evil!!!

hoofinitnorth · #6 12/27/07, 03:10 PM

You mentioned (green) food being scarce and then the doe getting into chicken feed. Are they getting enough to eat? Can you increase rations to settle her down? Even if it's just her rations? What about separating them for meals and then putting them back together? How about trying to make more places to eat than there are goats to reduce fighting over food?

If none of these are the issue, next thought is temperament & training. If training fails, culling is last resort.

fishhead · #7 12/27/07, 03:19 PM

My nubian/boer wether is the largest of the 3 but both goats push him aside. He moves just as far as necessary and then goes back to eating. I figure it's just that boers are more mellow.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #8 12/27/07, 04:33 PM

Oh thought you meant buck as in an intact buck. Wethers are always subordinate to the herdqueen. Vicki

HazyDay · #9 12/27/07, 06:54 PM

Got that right Vicki! Ours was even lower then my 2007 doeling when I put her in!!! They must not like animals that can't breed!!

nc_mtn · #10 12/27/07, 08:25 PM

Thanks for the replies. To answer the question about amount of food, I think they have and get plenty or what should be. I'm now wondering if perhaps the two are related in that the queen is just too agressive. The buck is 8-9 months old but he doesn't seem to take any abuse from her, just the other doe. We have had all 3 for the whole summer and I thought we had the best goats until now. Again the trouble started when we got rid of the one goat a short while back.
It is good to know that the temperment seems to get passed down to the kids....

hoofinitnorth · #11 12/27/07, 11:05 PM

Did you change any other living arrangements? Perhaps cut back the size of their quarters? Add a stresser (like a barking dog)? Maybe she's just crabby about it being winter? In heat a lot? Something like that?

nc_mtn · #12 12/28/07, 07:38 AM

I did cut back on there pasture when they started getting out. The winter wind had blown some limbs down onto the electric fence and I think this was partly how they were getting out - less charge. I thought for there saftey I would cut the size back to where they started in the early summer. I'm in the process of cleaning and fixing another fenced in area so that we may have room to rotate this summer. Also I want to have a safe place so when we get more goats I can keep them seperate for a short time.
I have only owned goats since this summer. I'm not an expert at reading all of the heat signs but I think she seems to be in heat off and on for the last month or more. The Buck has been acting so for that amount of time. I just assumed this is normal. I've been around farm animals all my life and it just seemed unordinary.

Thanksagaing

MB · #13 12/28/07, 09:32 AM

Oh I wish my little doe would put my wether in his place! He moves her around as he pleases.

mtnmenagerie · #14 12/28/07, 11:01 AM

it's possible that since she is the NEW queen, that she is still establishing her right to be boss. we went through the same thing when we sold out herd boss. the second in command turned into a NIGHTMARE!

during the summer we added a very large LaMancha doe, dominant in the herd we bought her out of, but so laid back. she put everyone in there place right away but doesn't feel the need to be too pushy. now our bratty "problem goat" just bows out gracefully.
just my two cents worth

good luck!

kath2003 · #15 12/28/07, 11:25 AM

We have the same thing here. One very bossy herd queen!! But their animals, and she earned it. Thats what they do. As long as you know the others are eating well, and have a place to run away, not all closed in together, I think they all figure it out!

Starsmom · #16 12/31/07, 08:26 AM

I think that when a dominated one becomes in charge, sometimes they go overboard. We have a mare that is basically 2nd in line, when the Alpha Mare is out of the picture, the second one moves up and is a total nightmare....very mean, but when the Alpha comes back, her attitude adjusts immediately and she is kinder to the others again. Weird, some just can't handle being boss I guess.