Guardian dog attacking goat

[Lane Linnenkohl]

Wasn't sure where to post this. Figured some goat folks should have experience with guardian dogs.

We have a guardian dog, 3/4 pyrenees, 1/4 Komondor, that will be 2 yrs old in Feb 2008. She has been living with our goats, cattle and chickens since about mid summer. She particularly attached herself to the goats. Well, Monday morning we had a doe give birth to twins, the first kids we've had since we've had this dog. My wife went to feed Monday morning to find the doe and kids cornered by the dog, dog barking, doe defending her kids, doe's head bloody, ears looking a bit like hamburger. Dog has never acted aggressive to any of our livestock before. Wife scolded the dog and tied her where she can't get near the goats (although the goats can go near the dog if they want to).

I'm assuming that the dog viewed the kids as intruders. I'm about to put this dog down, but before I do I wanted to ask if this behavior can be corrected or if this behavior is likely to reappear with future kiddings.

Thanks for any advice.

Lane

[roc-n-goats]

My dogs did the same thing, especially the male.
Seems the after birth is what they wanted, even the smell of blood got him going.
I seperate them now during birthing season, bring them together after a week or two.
I built one paddock, all 4 inch goat wire to keep predators out and goats in.
This is my birthing paddock.
Less problems now.

[joysmom]

I agree with roc-n-goats. We just had twins (Dec 9) and out Pyrenees was there for the birth. Maggie had the first kid in my front yard and was trying to clean her up while the dog was eating the afterbirth. I moved Maggie and baby to the birthing pen, locking Trey out, and she had the buckling. I removed the afterbirth from the pen and the dog followed me rather than pay attention to the goat. After that (about 2 days) I left the gate open and the dog came in while I was feeding Maggie. She butted the dog but the dog did not bother her after that. I believe it's the afterbirth the dog was after. Wait a while and try to reintroduce your dog to the mama and little ones again... I think you will be happy.


Joysmom

[Jcran]

Neighbor had a Maremma who had never been in the birthing pens. At 8 years old, she began to have access (new dog being trained in the pasture). She killed newly born three kids in one night-blood lust?- never figured it out. Jean found her literally pulling a kid from the doe as it was being born, then standing over it and growling, even at Jean. They put her down.

[dezeeuwgoats]

"The first kids we have had since we've had this dog"

This is key. Ideally, all young dogs should be observed during such a highly emotional time as kidding. The dog needs to learn from you what is going on. This dog is still a 'teenager' and with all the smells and excitement of birthing needs to know how to handle that by taking his/her cues from your guidance.

Often, the dog's mothering/nurtering radar is at an all time high. Yet, the doe is protective and wants the dog to stay back. She head butts the dog, triggering the dog to want to 'protect' these precious newborns from the 'threat' of the dam. It can be a very confusing time for the dog. The instinct to eat the afterbirth, dead kids, etc to clean up the area to not attract predators, the nurtering/protective instincts, add up to a highly charged, emotional time for the dog - especially a young one with no discernment.

I would suggest supervision on the next kiddings - and giving guidance to the dog. Make her keep back based on the does body language. I do not feel the dog should be put down. Misunderstood guarding responses during kidding/lambing is probably one of the most common reasons a dog is mistakenly put down. Many are shot due to eating stillbirths, or dead kids - farmer comes out and finds a half eaten kid, bloody dog - end of story.

Good luck - raising a livestock guardian is a demanding, rewarding job. I learned more raising ours than I ever could have imagined. You can't just 'put' them out with the livestock - as we had been mislead - however, they are worth their weight in gold once they figure things out!

Niki

[midkiffsjoy]

I have heard that it is very common for guard llamas to kill goat kids because they dont know them and therefore they view as an "outsider" and therefore a threat. I know that our dogs protect our rabbits, but chase down and eat wild rabbits. They help the next door neighbors dog protect their house, but when they got a new dog it didnt occure to us to introduce them and they beat her up before the dogs realized she belonged there (their old dog didnt like the new dog either, and that didnt help, though they all tolorate each other now). I'm willing to bet it's that the dog isnt used to the concept of "new goats" being born into the herd. They all have to learn that.

Good Luck.

[ozark_jewels]

In my opinion, a dog who has never been around kidding goats before needs to be supervised with you assisting the dog to see the kids as "ok". I am there for the births and I clean the kids up, show them to the dog, all very calm and soothing. Usually the dog wants to help clean the kids.....this should be supervised *very* carefully. But all this interaction with you, the goat and the kids, allows the dog to become accustomed to the idea.
Think about it, a young guardian dog seeing the doe stressing and obviously in distress(birthing pains, some does even scream), and then seeing this strange "intruder"....its not a good situation without supervision.

[ozark_jewels]

Oh, and yes, this behaviour can be corrected and I have seen it done successfully. I had a bit of trouble with my Troy his first year. He fought the 1st doe who kidded for her afterbirth....didn't touch the kids.....but the doe looked pretty rough by the time I found out what was going on. He was very loudly and sternly reprimanded(shaken by the scruff of the neck, yelled at gruffly and his nose shoved into what he had done, then rolled onto his back and sternly told "NO"). After that, he never fought another doe for the afterbirth, always waiting until after the doe had walked away.
So if this was my dog, I would work with her and give her a second chance. I would try to supervise births and let her be there for them.

[Lane Linnenkohl]

Thank you for all the responses. We've decided to put Sally on probation. We're giving her another chance, and this time, no unsupervised births. If we can't be there for the birth, then we'll be sure Sally isn't there either.

What it boils down to is that whether we stay with Sally, or get a new pup, we'll have to supervise the next few births. So, might as well stay with the dog we've put time into already.

Thanks again.

Lane