my experience with worms & experiment with DE - Homesteading Today
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of Homesteading Today!    
Homesteading Today

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Livestock Forums > Goats


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 12/14/07, 04:00 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,252
my experience with worms & experiment with DE

In September one of my does developed bottle jaw. She developed horrible diarrhea and dropped a significant amount of weight. In the past I had wormed her with Ivermectin, this time I used Safeguard. Because she was so anemic and her symptoms severe, I also gave her Vitamin B shots and Red Cell.

She seemed to improve. Her bowel movements looked better. Then all of a sudden (about 10 days later) we were right back where we started only now two does were affected. The scours were severe. Like dark colored water. They wouldn't eat and I thought for sure I would lose them. Thankfully though, they never went down.

I took stool samples to the vet and she called to let me know that we were dealing with Barber Pole Worms which was a little surprising to me as I had read that Barber Pole's don't often cause severe scours. She recommended a very expensive wormer that I had never heard of (can't remember the name at the moment). She also told me that due to the mild, damp weather my pastures would not be usable for at least six months. She recommended dry lotting the goats or taking them to another pasture somewhere that they had not been before because otherwise we would keep reinfecting. Well, that is just not possible for us. I had to come up with another solution.

I confined all the goats to our smallest pasture (about 1/2 acre) and they have stayed there since. Unfortunately, with the drought this summer and the fact that they had recently been on that pasture there was not any browse to speak of which means we are more likely to reinfect as they are eating what grass is left.

Meanwhile, 2 more of my goats developed horrible scours. I wormed all the goats once again with Safeguard and treated them all with Vitamin B and Red Cell.

I called her back and asked what she knew about DE. She told me that she had heard of people being successful with it but knew of no studies to support any claims. I had read many success stories on the internet but also read reports from those who said it had not worked for them. I decided I had nothing to lose and picked up 100 pounds at the co-op.

I immediately started top dressing their grain every evening. I used roughly 3% DE. 10 more days passed and my two weakest goats were ill again, though not as bad as before. Once again I wormed those 2, this time with Ivermectin. I continued top dressing their grain every night. When it quit raining long enough, I took a bucket of DE and a scoop and I walked the pasture (only 1/2 acre) and every pile of droppings or scours I sprinkled with DE. I cleaned out the barn and covered the floor with DE.

It has now been 2 months since I started treating with DE. They are still on the same pasture and it is still cool and damp. I am still top dressing their grain in the evening and they get hay. They have not had any scours in over 6 weeks. All the goats have gained weight and their coats look healthier and shinier. My skiniest doe who has had bouts with anemia before looks great and is steadily picking up weight. Their appetites have greatly increased and they have become much more vocal. lol

Could there have been other factors in their improved health? I suppose so. I did use chemical wormers (Safeguard and Ivermectin) several times at the beginning as something had to be done immediately, but until we started the DE they kept developing symptoms every week to 10 days. They've not been wormed in over 6 weeks and are doing beautifully despite the fact that we've not had a hard freeze and they have been on the same pasture for all this time.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with you as I've learned so much from you guys and thus far have not had much to contribute.

Beth
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12/14/07, 04:43 PM
Minelson's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
Newbie here....what is DE?
__________________
Teach only Love...for that is what You are
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12/14/07, 04:49 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: the flat land of Illinois
Posts: 4,652
diatomaceous earth (sp)

thank you for sharing your experience! I appreciate learning what works, particularly with worms.

Cathy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12/14/07, 04:54 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,377
It is Diatramaceous Earth (sp?) The food grade is what it being used here I bet.
bgraham that sounds great! Have not used it yet...cannot rotate pastures either...what is dry lot!!??? It has been raining raining here.
How much DE do you use for top dressing? Thanks

oops cathleenc got to it first.me slow

Last edited by Goat Servant; 12/14/07 at 04:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12/14/07, 05:17 PM
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North of Houston TX
Posts: 4,817
Beth be very careful with this as you move into spring. Warm weather blood sucking stomach worms like HC what you have are arrested in the goat (literally put to sleep) while cool weather worms that do not cause anemia but lack of condition, are the only worms you will have trouble with during the late fall and winter. But after freshening in the spring, and the winter green up in the pastures your HC level will be higher than ever, especially on even a smaller area. Worm larve is not soft shelled and killed by DE on pasture or in the intestine. Just a heads up for spring. Vicki
__________________
Vicki McGaugh
Nubian Soaps
North of Houston TX
www.etsy.com/shop/nubiansoaps

A 3 decade dairy goat farm homestead that is now a retail/wholesale soap company and construction business.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12/14/07, 05:19 PM
BlueHeronFarm's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,370
We feed our girls a pellet that has DE in it. We also copper bolus. Our worm loads have been much lower since implementing both, though we have no way of knowing if the DE is a contributing factor or not. ...I figure it can't hurt.

Beth, your profile doesn't show where you live, but Safeguard is no longer effective against HC in many, many areas. Its overuse has bred resistance. Just something to consider...when you DO worm, you may want to use Cydectin or Levamisol (sp?)

The HC life cycle is such that their larvae will be dormant in the cold. Most of us can go much longer between worming in my area this time of year.

So, in short - your DE might be helping, the weather is probably helping and, well, who knows?! There is a lot of parastite science we still don't fully understand. Be glad they are well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12/14/07, 07:08 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,252
Yes, it is Diatomaceous Earth and it is food grade. Don't use the kind for swimming pool filters!!

Vicki and BHF, thanks for your responses. I will definately keep an eye on it in the spring. And if the success is simply that the worms are just hibernating for the winter, I'll let you know!! Do you know if a good freeze will kill the larvae? We usually get a good freeze in January and February (I'm in Middle Tennessee).

I have two other pastures that I normally use for rotation but I wanted to confine them during this experiment. I intend to continue the DE in the feed so hopefully if there are more worms that will 'wake up' in the spring, the DE will do it's job before they become a problem. Also, I plan to move them to the back pasture in the spring and they haven't been on it in a while as I have some fencing to do! It is mostly overgrown with saplings and overgrown wild blackberries so they won't be grazing on the ground, either.

Thanks for your replies!!

Beth
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12/15/07, 08:00 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: georgia
Posts: 2,056
I am glad to hear this is working for you. I am going to try also.I have been struggling with the same thing. It is really frustrating to think you have them well and then they show up with the same thing . I am in NE Ga so our climate is similar. I will continue to use the chemical wormers and FAMACHA but would like to clear up what problems I have now. Our local vets are terrible!! A neighbor took in a fecal sample and they said worms Not what kind or how many said they would have to incubate to find out anything else and that would be another 20.00.So I used cydectin and they took another sample in 10 days later and the vet said still w/worms couldn't tell if there were less as they didn't do that??(So what was the point?). Asking for microscope for christmas to learn to do my own fecals.
__________________
Chris
http://aberryvinefarm.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12/15/07, 09:44 AM
Wendy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SE Indiana
Posts: 7,310
You might also want to switch wormers. Ivermectin isn't working in all areas anymore & Safeguard is pretty much not working anywhere from what I have read. You might switch to Cydectin.
__________________
I can't believe I deleted it!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12/15/07, 10:00 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,624
I am worried about you breathing that stuff, especially since you put in down in the coop where the goats will be stirring it up. As you know, it is a very fine, and very sharp powder. You don't want it in your lungs.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12/15/07, 11:22 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,252
Mary,

Yes, when working with DE it is recommended that you wear a mask. I did not put down a lot. I just sprinkled it on the floor which quickly gets covered with spent hay. I have not noticed any in the air and I keep my face turned away when applying.

The goats seem to really like it. The first few times I put it on their feed I tried to mix it in and it seemed to all fall to the bottom of their feed container. Now I just top dress it and they eat almost all of it. Two of them like to lick up whatever is left after eating their grain.

Beth
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12/15/07, 04:54 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 2,133
What I've heard about DE is that it's not an effective wormer because the inside of a goat's intestines is moist, and DE kills by drying the worms out. So it would figure that it may kill worms outside the body, but you still need a chemical wormer, especially right after kidding. My friend went to convention this past fall, and the info she got is that HC worms are spread by worms on the grass, which is why your vet suggested dry lotting them.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12/16/07, 10:31 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 407
DE works by cutting the skin/ outer coating of parasites. It is sharp. The sharp barbs are microscopically small, but they can hurt your lungs as well as damaging parasites. It works very well if you use it hand in hand with regular wormers as it weakens the parasites and allows the medicine to have access to their bodies. It will not help for anything that is not in the digestive tract (lungworms etc.). To help keep your goats from hurting their lungs, mix the DE with a moist feed, like sweet feed, and then take some of the sweet feed and mix it with your regular ration. The moisture in the feed should keep the DE from causing "dust" that can hurt your goats and cause breathing issues. Works for me.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12/16/07, 11:25 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Owaneco,IL
Posts: 93
keeping the moisture down in feed.

I mix my goats feed pellets and alfalfa pellets with safflower oil or corn oil. That way anything I'm top dressing(pro-bios,kelp or goat minerals) stay stuck to the feed and not wasted on the bottom of the feeders.
Are any of you using the worm program made by Molly of Fiasco Farm?
I have just started the program. I would like to totally eliminate the use of wormers with my goats. Is this possible?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.
Contact Us - Homesteading Today - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top - ©Carbon Media Group Agriculture