Popping bloat?

chickenista · #1 12/08/07, 02:32 PM

Just wondering if anyone else has seen or done this...

When I was working for a private owner of exotic animals (hate those guys.. should be illegal..ego farms)
he had a whole crew of people working including a part time vet assistant.
One of the goats "got the bloat" and she popped it with a small knife..
Made a triangle with her thumbs and forefingers... placed her fingers on the hip bone, nade a mental note of where the middle of the triangle was.. and stabbed!
Great green gas came whooshing out..and the goat instantly hopped up and went happily on her way. They caught her up and dressed the puncture etc... but goat was fine.
Anyone?

not condoning etc.. so don't kill me.. I wasn't the one that did it... I am just asking a simple question about a procedure I saw done a coupla times...

HazyDay · #2 12/08/07, 03:58 PM

I know you do that if it is a really bad case, but never have done it yet. I have seen a vet do it to a cow, a little different as they cleaned the area first!

BlueHeronFarm · #3 12/08/07, 04:06 PM

Everyone I know who has had to do this ended up losing the goat anyway. It's in the books...makes me wonder how commonly people do it. Better to be careful about feed, pasture time, etc. if you can.

BethW · #4 12/08/07, 05:41 PM

I imagine if it's the only last-ditch resort it might be worth a try, but puncturing the abdominal cavity/peritoneum is an invitation to infection and a horrible death.

goatkid · #5 12/08/07, 06:21 PM

I would never try this, myself. If it needed to be done, that type of procedure is best done by a vet. They have studied anatomy. I haven't and would be afraid to try.

southerngurl · #6 12/08/07, 08:09 PM

I have a book that says if you prop up their front end it will allow them to burp it out.

Laura Workman · #7 12/08/07, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickenista

Just wondering if anyone else has seen or done this...

When I was working for a private owner of exotic animals (hate those guys.. should be illegal..ego farms)
he had a whole crew of people working including a part time vet assistant.
One of the goats "got the bloat" and she popped it with a small knife..
Made a triangle with her thumbs and forefingers... placed her fingers on the hip bone, nade a mental note of where the middle of the triangle was.. and stabbed!
Great green gas came whooshing out..and the goat instantly hopped up and went happily on her way. They caught her up and dressed the puncture etc... but goat was fine.
Anyone?

not condoning etc.. so don't kill me.. I wasn't the one that did it... I am just asking a simple question about a procedure I saw done a coupla times...

Did the goat stay fine, or did it get sick and die within a couple of weeks?

Bearfootfarm · #8 12/08/07, 09:39 PM

"If the bloat is really bad, call a vet immediately because the pressure in the abdomen can could stop the lungs and heart from working. The veterinarian will release the gas by making a small incision. The incision is made four fingers width behind the bottom of the ribs on the left side of the goat as it lies.
If the goat is near death, as a last resort, you may try puncturing the rumen with a stabbing action, using a very sharp, pointed knife or preferably a trocar and cannula. Aim for the highest spot on the left side and plunge into the rumen. The danger with this is that the rumen contents and/or dirt from the outside can get between the layers between the rumen, peritoneum and skin and cause a very serious infection called peritonitis. But if the goat in near death, anything is worth trying to save her."

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/bloat.htm

MaineFarmMom · #9 12/08/07, 10:02 PM

Our vet taught us how to do this. It's not something I'd want to do again. My oldest daughter could do it easily. In spite of her great efforts, the goat died. He had too much wet green spring grass and bloated.

A word of warning - the escaping gas smelled horrible.

chickenista · #10 12/08/07, 10:04 PM

It was almost 20 years ago now.. and yeah..it smelled awful! We went out to lunch afterwards and about emptied the place.. a zookeeper type person entertainment..
to the best of my recollection..he was fine. Kept the site clean etc.... I wouldn't ever want to see it done again, just one of those weird random memories that comes out of nowhere.

HazyDay · #11 12/08/07, 10:09 PM

Well I have seen a cow with a ruman plug. They cut a hole in the ruman and put a plug in it so the vets in training could take ruman grass samples. It look really cool, as the guy went half way in.

fishhead · #12 12/08/07, 10:19 PM

I've read that you can use a 16 ga. needle too. Antibiotics were recommended.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #13 12/08/07, 11:10 PM

But if the goat in near death, anything is worth trying to save her."
............................

I suppose if you believe this, than this is fine. I don't believe this for my goats.

There are alot of folks using massive durgs to save goats....and about 3 weeks later they relapse and die. They actually aren't relapsing at all from the original problem... they are just dieing from the liver being destroyed from all the drugs, worming 3 times in a row etc.

It's best for the goat not to let it get into this poor of shape. Vicki

Feral Nature · #14 12/11/07, 02:20 PM

It is a last ditch effort and it can work. I have stabbed a cow with a knife after Johnson grass poisoning resulting in bloat...she lived after I "confessed" to the vet what I did and the cow was put on meds for the potential infection. The cow was recovering well, but broke her foot and died from complications from that....long sad story.

I stabbed a goat in the rumen with a knife years a ago to relieve bloat and it did great. Antibiotics cleared up the wound.

More recently, I had a 80 pound doeling bloat in the pen when no other goat did with no feed change...she was in extreme agony and I used an 18G needle to relieve the pressure. It whistled out of her. This treatment was purely palliative as I was aware that this goat was most likely going to die...I was simply trying to relieve her agonizing pain by reducing the pressure...which I did.

These are 3 cases in my lifetime of raising ruminants...goats, sheep and cattle. It was something my grandfather did and I suppose his grandfather before him. Just something i was brought up with.

I was not online til the last case occurred and when I told it, I upset a few people but I "did" study anatomy and I also studied medicine and it was appropriate to puncture the rumens in these cases.

**Terri** · #15 12/11/07, 02:31 PM

Wouldn't it be safer to tube the goat to relieve the pressure?

moonspinner · #16 12/11/07, 04:20 PM

I've seen it done in sheep and successfully.

Feral Nature · #17 12/11/07, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri

Wouldn't it be safer to tube the goat to relieve the pressure?

The first goat I "popped" I had tubed first. There was still way too much gas left in the goat.

Same with the big Holstein cow I stabbed. She was in the road, unconscious and seizing violently. I am a retired ER nurse so, been there done that. I tubed the cow and she expelled vast quantities of nasty green fluid with each seizure. It still was not enough. After about 10 seizures I stabbed her in the rumen with a big knife (as opposed to a little needle).

I don't run around popping rumens but if I feel like an emergency medical procedure needs to be done, whether for life-saving purposes, or simply to give relief in a dying animal, I do not hesitate.

momofmany · #18 12/11/07, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southerngurl

I have a book that says if you prop up their front end it will allow them to burp it out.

This has worked for me twice. The first thing I did was give them a syringe full of dawn dishsoap then I held their legs on my shoulders while my daughter vigorously rubbed the sides upwards. The burps smelled awful, but the goats pulled through. I have since purchased goat bloat release, but in a pinch it worked.

thatcompchick · #19 12/11/07, 05:50 PM

I have tubed, and I have used a trocar. I was taught in pre-vet at Va Tech on sheep.

If you have a badly bloated goat (this does happen) - you risk the chance of entero - I mean BADLY BLOATED and can't walk it out and can't baking soda/bloat pac it out.

Learn to tube first. If that doesn't work, and the goat goes down, get the antitoxin out and call the vet. The vet will come out and trocar - or you can learn to do so yourself. Leave the trocar IN THE GOAT and get the goat to the vet where it can be properly sutured, decreasing the risk of internal contents causing infection. This is a last resort if you can't get the vet to come out and do it!!!

Cattlemen have long learned to use a broomstick handle to reduce pressure from bloat (read acidosis) - I'm wondering if something similar will work with goats - hoping I don't have to find out!

I have also seen this done with a large gauge hypo needle in emergencies on the range.

hth

Andrea
www.arare-breed.net
www.faintinggoat.net

Sweet Goats · #20 12/12/07, 04:17 PM

When I was a kid on the farm we did that with the cows, and we also did that once or twice on a horse. Saved them all.
About a month of so ago, one of my 4Hers called and needed me to come to their place. Something was wrong with the goat. Well he was so bloated that all I could do was try to make him comfortable until another friend could come with a gun. I gave him a shot of Banamein to help with the pain. I did use a 14 Gage needle to try to release some pressure. It did help and yes it stunk like OH man. I think after the shot started to set in and the little pressure that I was able to get off, he was FINALLY out of just enough pain to go ahead and let go.
I would do it again in a heart beat.