Changing the bedding over winter

[scimdarren]

Hi

This will be my first year wintering goats in a harsh Northern climate.

I am not sure whether laying new bedding over old bedding is bad practise. For smaller animals it is a good way to retain heat, but Goats pee a lot more!
What should I do, they live in a small insulated shed.
Also, when goats are in a confined space, are they clever enough to eventually learn to pee away from where they would normally sleep?

Thanks

Darren

[topside1]

Darren, layering your bedding is the way to go. Whenever you have short warm spells clean out the old bedding and start again fresh. This will accomplish two things, minimize the ammonia vapors from reaching high levels and will also save your back come spring cleanouts. Adding you location to your profile would also be helpful in understanding where you harsh winter is. Keep the goats outside during the day, temps permitting...Sorry to say but goats aren't like rabbits, they pee whenever and whereever they please....Welcome to the forum, what kind of goats are you raising? Send us your questions...

[topside1]

Just one more thing, folks tell of barn fires caused by manure heat build-up. Anything is possible, but the odds are against having a fire...Just clean out from time to time throughout your winter and count the days til spring.

[Keeperofmanya]

Hi and Welcome. I am not going to let my bedding build up over the winter. We clean out our barn every week and it is alot just doing that so we have decided to keep doing it that way. We give them alot of bedding. And no, they will pee where ever they please especally in their bed,it doesn't seem to matter to them.
Others on here will have different opions about this though. Over wintering the bedding would just be way to hard for us to clean.

[DocM]

The practice is called deep bedding. Using straw or grass hay, you simply add new layers to the existing ones. This is best done on a dirt floor, there's no drainage on surfaced flooring. Every few days, I kneel on the bedding. If my knees are wet, I put a thicker layer on until it feels dry. I clean it out (and sell it for garden additive) in May or June - and the compressed thickness is about 18-24". The shed isn't deep bedded during the summer/fall, the girls sleep on raised benches (their choice) that are built along the edges of the shed. 60 days prior to kidding, they're moved into individual pens, but we still deep bed. The composting effect of the lower levels keeps the bedding warm to the touch. It doesn't smell and I've never heard of a fire starting that way, although it's certainly possible, although compost needs air to combust, and so as long as you don't disturb the lower levels, you won't have a fire. My shed has the sliding door opening to a southern exposure. I keep it open in all but the worst weather, and that side of the shed is fenced with field fencing and a gate. The ventilation helps. The girls are comfortable and our nightly temps are usually teens to single digits.

[gryndlgoat]

We deep bed here too (SW Ontario). Like DocM, we do the "knee test" and add more bedding wherever and whenever necessary. I have dug down in midwinter and never seen any steam coming up from the composting bedding, so the risk of fire is probably minimal. The decaying straw is warm (ie not frozen solid) but not steaming hot.

In the spring, it is really easy to scoop off the uncomposted top layer and pile that outside for further composting. The composted layer (usually about a foot deep by the end of the winter) can be cut like peat with a sharp shovel or spading fork and removed straight into our raised garden beds. Doesn't take long at all to do two 10 by 10 box stalls.

[scimdarren]

Thanks for the prompt helpful replies.
We live in Manitoba, Canada, we emigrated from the overcrowded UK in 2005 and are living our dream on 5 acres.
My wife and I both work so at the moment our 2 alpine goats are just pets and lawnmowers! We are shortly expecting our 3rd child, so Sarah may take a break from work to raise the child and possibly look into small scale farming as a sideline.

We are quickly learning from our friends and neighbours that animals in this climate are a lot more hardy than we assumed them to be and pampering them through winter is not neccessarily the way to go.
The insulated shed we use was built and intended for 25 laying hens (12x8), but now we have reduced our flock to 12 and partitioned one half for the goats. It has a raised wood floor, with a waterproof lino on it. I would still like to have the goats outside through the day and put them away at night.

So I am thinking based on your advice, to possibly layer but with wood shavings in addition to the hay/straw? To compensate for my lack of drainage on my wooden floor?

Thanks

Darren and Family

[DocM]

I'd still use straw. I deep bed my pens on a raised wood floor. It's not impossible to clean (it's lined with a stall mat). I don't have problems with urine running out of the bottom, so it must absorb into the lower layers of straw. Wood shavings are not good for dairy goats, regardless of what you might read here.

[Bearfootfarm]

If you spread a layer of lime between layers of bedding it will neutralize the ammonia. Just dont use hydrated lime since it heats up when it gets wet

[fishhead]

I know a goat raiser in MN that lets her goats decide whether to be inside or out and she said that nearly all of the time the goats prefer to be outside.

This is my first winter with goats but I plan on put up an open air shelter with bedding inside so they can get out of the wind and rain. I would think that being in a cold humid closed shelter may be an invitation to respiratory problems.

[deetu]

I used to use wood shavings with the hay theyd didn't eat as bedding. Yes, it is alot of work cleaning in the Spring but not as hard to do during the winter. I will take off a layer every now and then so it isn't too deep.

I now use a wood pellet product that works FANTAASTIC! No more ammonia smells and very dry with just sprinkling some over the top. My vet was even surprised that it didn't smell.

I don't do the knee thing. Hated having a wet smelly knee if it did need better bedding. I will put a papertowel under the toe of my foot with all my weight on it... one legged.

I also leave the door open unless it is going to be a really bad storm.

Good luck with your new baby and farm.

[sammyd]

We usually keep a pack all winter. Sometimes in early spring if we get a warmer day we'll take some out but we don't get too worked up about it if we don't.

[cathleenc]

anyone deep bed with corn fodder? I just bought large bales of it and was planning on using that, not straw, for deep bedding. Would love to hear feedback. thanks, Cathy

[hoofinitnorth]

In this area, "deep bedding" does not imply layering, just bedding deeply with clean bedding. This is the type of "deep bedding" I do for all my animals in the cold. I pile it high and don't complain (much) when I have to strip the stalls down and find a lot of wasted bedding. I'd rather spend effort and time on cleaning out wasted bedding than have a chilled animal.

In my chicken coop, however, I've been encouraged to do this layering thing. I'm not finding it to work real well without having ammonia build-up. Lots of folks that advocate for this method say the ammonia is not an issue in colder weather but if the area is kept warm enough, ammonia then starts to gas more! This is the problem I have in my chicken coop - chicken bodies just heat up too much to keep the ammonia down without removing all the litter/bedding regularly and adding new, fresh bedding, YES, even though I have great ventilation!

One thing I have recently discovered (thanks to my local mentors and friends) is Sweet PDZ. REALLY cuts down on ammonia issues and it is safe to use around the livestock, even around sensitive parts like udders.

[DixyDoodle]

In this area, "deep bedding" does not imply layering, just bedding deeply with clean bedding. This is the type of "deep bedding" I do for all my animals in the cold. I pile it high and don't complain (much) when I have to strip the stalls down and find a lot of wasted bedding. I'd rather spend effort and time on cleaning out wasted bedding than have a chilled animal.

I'm with you. I have two windows in my coop and still, the ammonia smell is not acceptable for me with the layered bedding. I would prefer to remove it all and start new. I can't help but think that maybe it would stay "fluffier" if nice and deep and dry. You can't really burrow down into flat, damp bedding that is underneath the other on top. And around here, puddles of urine would freeze quickly, so my goats would have their litter sitting on ice.

I have a goat "coop" here, with wood floor, and here's what I do:

In summer: wood shavings only. Nice and cool for the goats, keeps it aired out nicely. Clean out weekly or even sometimes every week and a half. It depends on how much time they spend in there; they tend to stay outside for the most part though. If you can put an outdoor shelter there for them, often they would prefer to lay under that instead of going indoors in summer.

In winter: wood shaving base, straw or old (but not mouldy) hay on top. I find hay/straw tends to "muck up" fast with urine, but it's better for the insulating quality. The shavings are better at soaking up any urine. And is it just me, or does urine-covered shavings smell less strong than straw? I find using just straw/hay makes my coop reek after a few days. My wood floor is typically dry when I do clean up, thanks to the shavings. I clean once a week in winter.

Welcome to Canadian winters!

Dixy

[Jillis]

I've done both. I did notice that in the upper barn, where a large green tub that we use for hay had been standing, there was a very hot spot under it!
It was quite cold out. Sometimes the smaller goats get in the tub to curl up and sleep after the hay is eaten. So the weight of the goats must have pressed the tib down on the bedding. It was damp, and very HOT. So I was wondering myself about barn fires!

[Backfourty,MI.]

We clean out their houses everyday, I change any soiled straw daily. All our goats have raised wood floors. I can't imagine not cleaning them everyday. On warmer days I leave the clean straw piled in the corners to let the floors dry out(They have many other places to lay) & in the summer or warm months(50 degrees or warmer) we use no bedding of any type. I find mine will not go to the bathroom in their houses if there's no straw! A peice of cake to clean up in summer!

[mpillow]

I just added a bunch of leaves (apple and oak) and pine needles on top of my "pack", my barn door is still open 24/7 most nights are 15-30 degrees. Goats are having fun eating all those leaves! We've been doing it this way for 7 years....small cleanouts Spring and Fall and a full clean out every other year.
If I could afford shavings it'd be nice but the budget doesnt allow and the wasted hay/mulch hay/leaves/needles generates more heat and composts quicker IMO

[Disco Paul]

We use corn fodder and lime between layers. It's deep in the spring. Works
great. Gets cold in Minnesota.