Safeguard and/or Panacur dosages for tapeworms??

[Milk n' Honey]

OK, so I haven't been giving any white wormer to my kids and I lost one recently to a worm overload. I gave Panacur but I think I was too late. Gobs of tapeworms came out. I tried to reverse the anemia but the poor thing died anyway. How do you dose then for tapeworms? Is it 3 days in a row or once and then again in 10 days or what? I know to double the dose and for lungworm it is once a day for three days in a row. I'm noticing a few goats acting like they have worm overloads. We are in the process now of deworming the herd. We use Ivermec unless someone seems more off and then use a white wormer. It has done pretty well for us. Now, I don't know. Hmmmm........I have two kids with diarrhea and pale gums and eyelids so I certainly suspect worms is the culprit. They are around 7 months old. They've been dewormed with Ivermec a couple of times. I don't repeat the dose in 10 days b/c my vet said that isn't necessary.??????? Advice would be must appreciated. Thanks!!

[Alice In TX/MO]

We really really need a sticky for dewormer info.

Check this page: http://fiascofarm.com/goats/wormers.htm

Also....
Copied from dairygoatinfo.com

1. AVEFFNECTINS: BRAND NAME APPROVAL DOSAGE ROUTE MILK MEAT
Ivermectin * Ivermec drench extra- label 0.13mg/lb (0.3mg/kg) PO 36-40 days 11 days
Tvermactin Ivomec 1% extra- label 0.13mg/lb (0.3mg/kg) SC 36-40 days 56 days
Doramectin * Dectomax extra- label 0.13mg/lb (0.3mg/kg) SC 36-40 days 56 days
Eprinomectin ** Eprinex extra- label 0.22mg/lb (5mg/kg) PO 0 days 0 days
Moxidectin * Quest, Cydectin extra- label 0.22mg/lb (5mg/kg) PO 0 days ?
2. BENZIMIDAXOLES BRAND NAME APPROVAL DOSAGE ROUTE MILK MEAT
Albendazole Valbazen extra- label 4.5mg/lb (10mg/kg) PO 5 days 27 days
Fenbendazole Panacur/Safeguard approved 4.5mg/lb (10mg/kg) PO 4 days 14 days
Oxfendazole Synantwic extra- label 4.5mg/lb (10mg/kg) PO 5 days 14 days
3. CHOLINERGIC AGONISTS BRAND NAME APPROVAL DOSAGE ROUTE MILK MEAT
Levamisole Levasole extra- label 3.6mg/lb (8mg/kg) PO 4 days 10 days
Morantel Tartrate Rumatel approved 0.5mg/lb (10mg/kg) PO 0 days 30 days


* Milk kinetics of moxidectin & doramectin in goats
* Milk kinetics of moxidectin & doramectin in goats
* Pharmacokinetics of moxidectin & doramectin in goats
*Thermal and long-term freezing stability of ivermectin residues in sheep milk
** Eprinomectin in goat: assessment of subcutaneous administration (Parasitology Research 2003)
Eprinomectin in dairy goats: dose influence on plasma levels and excretion in milk(Parasitology Research 2001)
Some pharmacokinetic parameters of eprinomectin in goats following pour-on administration (1999)

Comparison of selective and systematic treatments to control nematode infection of the digestive tract in dairy goats.

[Bearfootfarm]

"They've been dewormed with Ivermec a couple of times. I don't repeat the dose in 10 days b/c my vet said that isn't necessary.??????? Advice would be must appreciated. Thanks!!"

Try some Prohibit Drench. Ivomec doesnt seem to be working for you anymore

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/...398&area=sheep

[susanne]

i think it is vet time for your animals and have a fecal check done. you need to know what parasites you are dealilng with and than use a wormer accordingly.

[Milk n' Honey]

I've never heard of that dewormer!! Hmmmmm, also thought of Cydectin. I know that is last resort but many people are using it.

[Bearfootfarm]

Originally Posted by Milk n' Honey

I've never heard of that dewormer!! Hmmmmm, also thought of Cydectin. I know that is last resort but many people are using it.

Prohibit does not seem to be a "popular" as lots of other wormers, and I dont really understand why since it works so well.

From the symptoms you gave you most likely have Barber Pole worms, and it does a great job on them. You'll still need Safeguard or something similar for tapes.

Cydectin will work but will cost a LOT more

"Levamisole is another widely used deworming product for ruminants. In goats, it is usually used at the sheep dose (8 mg/kg or 3.6 mg/lb). Again, goats need a higher dose than the sheep dose and 11 mg/kg (5 mg/lb) has been recommended. The safety margin for this product is lower than for the other anthelmintics and side effects, especially salivation, may be seen after treatment especially if the injectable form is used. The oral form is safer and will be eliminated from the animal faster. Barber pole worms resistant to levamisole have been documented, although resistance to this product does not appear to be as widespread as benzimidazole resistance."

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/wormsncsu.shtml

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

We have the dosages on our site if you are interested in using the powdered Prohibit, you can buy it in livestock catalogs. The same drug is the Levamisole injectable...3cc per 100 pounds, but don't go much higher than this. It isn't a popular drug because it can give you brief neurological problems if overdosed, or even in just highnormal doses. It is also the perfect drug to use to bring your kills of HC worms up to 99% with Ivermectin or Safeguard/panacur in a cocktail, not mixed, but given right after each other.

Tapeworms are not causing the anemia in your goats. Just because you can see tapeworms doesn't mean they are the problem. If you want to worm for tapes fine...get some Safeguard or Panacur and worm...but for blood sucking parasites it does nothing. At the same time use Cydectin or your Ivermectin or the Prohibit/Levamisole. Get the kids on an oral sulfa for cocci, and clean up their enviornment. Keep them out of their pens and barn for 12 hours after worming so the worms don't just go back into the goats via their feet touching their hay or grain.

Do something now, you don't want to overwinter arrested larve, if you do your worm burden in these animals will be out of control come spring. Vicki

[susanne]

the problems in this herd are looking already severe to me.

http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=216593

the only sound advise i can give is get a fecal check done.
use levamisole now, without knowing and checking, and this is the next wormer that will not work on this farm.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Thanks Susanne didn't put two and two together.

So MilknHoney did you do anything with the sound advice that you got from Emily or the hundreds of other posts that tell you how to worm, and what not to use? By the time you are seeing bottle jaw and anemia like this in your herd, your goats are days away from being dead. Rethink your whole management, from cleaning your barns to stocking rates of your herd. Do they stand in their hay or grain feeders? Is there water clean? Do they have a clean dry place to lay in at night? Switching from this to that with no real idea of what you are doing is going to kill your goats. I know the hay situation in some places is horrible (we are lucky here, we just found local alfalfa for $4.50 a bale, I haven't seen a price like that in 10 years), but if you have to sell goats, sell them. What are you going to do about your energy, protein and roughage for them for winter? Vicki

[Milk n' Honey]

Susanne - I appeciate your help but I posted that thread separate in order to get answers on a different subject (even though it is closely related). My "herd" isn't in trouble. A couple of them aren't doing great but they've all been healthy all spring and summer until now. I'm sure worms is the answer. I came on here to get some help. I'm still trying to find a groove here. My husband and I are just about to hang it up. I'm sure you are sick of hearing about my problems) even though I haven't posted any for quite a while), but better to listen to them than to have the problems yourself. It is all very discouraging. I want you to know that we have spent 100's and 1,000's of dollars on these goats, trying to make this place a goat friendly place. We had to buy a backhoe just to dig ditches to elliminate the standing water so the snails would go away that are causing the lungworm!! We have done fecals and a necropsy. Everytime I have taken fecals to the vet, nothing shows in them. The goats are never fed on the ground. I am not sure what you mean about a clean place to lay but they lay in the dirt on the barn floor. I rake the berries out. Yes, they have clean water from an automatic waterer, all the time. I feel that given the repeated symptoms and from having the necropsy done on one goat a while back, that my problem here is still most likely the lungworm. I've had good luck saving several goats with the Panacur per vet's advice. So I worm with Ivermec until I find a goat that isn't quite right and then I use Panacur which is very costly, I might add. The baby has received cocci prevention. Believe me, I've really been trying to do everything right. Failure isn't always for lack of effort. Besides I just have a couple that are "off." The majority of the herd looks gorgeous, no anemia and are doing great. I just wonder about spending so much time picking grass so closely shaven to the ground (we had hay out so they weren't forced to do that) and the affect that has on the worm loads. Also, this seemed to crop up when the weather got cold and at the end of breeding season. Anyway, to deworm kids for tapes, if I choose to do that, what is the dose please? I have never been told than my goats had Barber Pole worm but I guess that is a possibility. Anyway, it just so happened that the time all the goats are due for their Fall trimming, CD/T, deworm, delouse treatments, is when they are showing these signs. I'll try repeating the Ivermec in 10 days. On the hay issue, if I don't find some more hay soon, I'll have to sell 8 goats. I don't want to but I can't risk losing the whole herd. Well, I might take a fecal in despite my inbelief that it will help.

Vicki, I'm not sure what particular advice you are referring to but I do follow some advice but not others. It depends on what I decide is the best advice to follow. I almost always do what you say, for instance. You know what? Maybe we just aren't meant to have goats. I'm not used to failing at things. I have always been a determined person. Does Cydectin replace Ivermec and the white wormer as well? Well, I'm tired. Gotta go to bed now. Thanks again.

[susanne]

a fecal check does not come back with nothing. every healthy goat has some eggs.
the problems you are talking about in another goat, is bottle jaw, most likely caused by blood sucking worms or liver fluke ( snails are also host for this parasite). lungworms don't do bottle jaw.
by the time the ditch was done, the goats where probably already loaded with parasites.
what did you use as wormer since you have your goats and what was the dosage?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

It's just really hard because you are going about it soo wrong. It doesn't take that kind of money. Being clean is number one, not having numbers that overgraze your place down to no grass. A goat eating their grass down to that level, here we try to keep all pastures above their knees, most unless mowed like right now are to their bellies....then worms become problems on low grass and moisture.

Your vet is not fecaling you for lungworms, most vets don't do Bareman floatations, and Levamisole and Ivermectin and Valbazen take care of lungworm quite eaisly. So if you have lungworm problems than use one of these wormers for your herd wormer which also gives you protection against blood sucking worms causing your bottle jaw...so how about the levamisole?

Keep your goats out of their clean pens and short pastures for 12 hours after you worm.

Switch to a feeding program you can afford all times of the year. Yes we make different decisons when there is no hay.

Panacur is expensive, but Safeguard is the exact same drug, exactly the same, so buy it instead.

Honestly if you are going to tapeworm you kids, use Valbazen 1cc per 10 pounds given orally...I use it at 3 weeks, 6 weeks and over 12 weeks old...at no other time do I specifically go after tape worms in my herd.

You might want to use the cocktail Levamisol cattle injectable at 3cc per 100 pounds orally, and tripe the dose of Safeguard. Rake the pens (and my girls also lay on dirt, but it is dry and raked) and keep the girls out of the barn and pasture for 12 hours. This will give you your best bet on getting the resistant super worms you have grown in your goats, out ofyour goats and onto ground the goats don't frequent, perhaps where hens can come in and scratch.

Keep you numbers down to just animals moving you towards your goal. Vicki

[Milk n' Honey]

Thank you Vicki. That is what I was looking for. I'll write the doseages down for the kids (Valbazen) and for the cocktail. I might add that I noticed the bottle jaw is gone in the few goats that were affected so I guess the Ivermectin took care of whatever was causing that. I need to get hooked up with a microscope so I know more about what is going on. I'd feel better about it if I saw it for myself. She reported a few worm eggs but it was well within range. Sorry, I know I said "no worms" but what I really meant was "none worth speaking of." The truth is that our numbers are too high. I had a discussion with my husband today and we need to get rid of about 10 goats. There are a couple with less than perfect teat formations and a couple that are on the small side. The really nice, good stock (which is also the ones whom stay healthy) are the keepers. I asked him....why keep goats that won't produce kids you can sell for enough money to pay you to keep them all winter and pay the extra for the hay? I have two goats that are just about 8-9 months old that I want to keep and I want to keep at least one dairy goat. The rest can go except for the fullblood and high percentage Boers. Then I'd be happy. I really don't want to have to take care of this many goats anyway!! Thanks again!!