Question about breeding a small framed doe ...

[Middle River]

I have a tiny 3yr old nubian/sanaan doe - i've posted about her before. I'm still trying to decide what i'm going to do reguarding breeding yet. In our local paper last week i saw an add for stud service to a reg. fainting goat buck - would he produce small kids ? At least for her first time i'd like little kids, as then i was told it may be easier on her to be bred to say my Alpine buck after that. I really want to milk this girl. Opinions ???? Thanks !

[mygoat]

find her a nigie or pygmy buck. Fainters may be shorter in size, but they sure as heck pack on the muscle. You may never be able to breed her to your full size alpine buck. Maybe a pygmy, or a nigie, but probably never a full size buck.

Also, be sure for you or someone else to BE THERE when she kids. get an exact due date and check ligs at least 2x per day starting a week before the duedate, and keep a close eye when she looses the ligs.

If it was me, an breeding her would be iffy, I would either get rid of her to a good home or eat her. Honestly, I'd probably eat her b/c she's taking up valuable space that a productive doe could be using, eating feed and not producing... And also, finding a good permanent home where she would never be irresponsibly bred would be near to impossible. Also, most 'pet' homes are so ignorant that she would be mistreated 'on accident' due to ignorance and possibly suffer for it.

[Middle River]

mygoat - very good points. She is taking up space, and is my only non-alpine so it's silly to keep her - BUT ( and this won't happen again ) she was my first goat, and also spent last Dec.-Feb. living in our house while recovering from polio, and she goes to summer camp every year for kids to learn about animals with - so she is very dear to us, so nope, we can't eat her ( hopeing to get a wether to butcher next fall though ), and just as you brought up, i don't trust re-homeing her. She also acts different then the others, and is very human-like if that makes sense.

I've looked for pygmy or ND bucks in my area, but can't find something close enough thats on a clean farm. I haven't seen this guy yet, but what about if he isn't huge ? I've seen some big grade pygmys in the area, and they are stout, i was just wondering what the fainters are like and what type of birth weights they had.

We will be there for her when she kids - i even have kidding days ( that i can take when it happens ) approved off at work - but will most likely be working from home by then as well.

I have also talked with my vet, and would have him on call as well. I'm looking to buy another Alpine doe/doeling, and Capri is kinda in my way, but if she is milking at least she will be doing something. Thanks !!!

[HazyDay]

I would go with mygoats post! A mini will make small kids and not hurt the doe! Hows that buck of yours???

[Middle River]

He is ripe ! We can smell him as we are pulling into the driveway ! I thought DH would hate him after this, but i think he actually has a "guy bond" with him ! Yep, the old feller sure does go into rut, and loves the ladies - he is very proud of himself as well ! If he keeps going at this rate and looking the way he does my vet said he could easily be 15 and still breeding ! I'd have to replace him by then, but i still think i'll keep him till he passes - he is a wonderful guy. Thanks for asking :+)

[mygoat]

She's probably such a small doe because of her early life troubles. So, essentially, you have a goat that had the capability to grow to full size but didn't... So her genes will be telling the kids to be large as it is. Breeding to a small fainter, even, will produce large kids. Fainters are in general not very large goats as it is, but they should be massively muscled. Fainter crossed to full size goats are often very large, meaty goats.

Heck, even breeding to a pygmy or nigie will still produce medium sized kids out of this doe.

I suggest that you wait and find a pygmy/nigie breeder. You should be able to find one through your states' dairy goat assocation, the Adga/npga, or on this forum.

Also, I suggest that she is flushed so she has a higher number of kids (up her grain a little starting a month before kidding and up to 2 weeks post breeding) and then ELIMINATE grain entirely from her diet until a few days before freshening. Restrict all foods from her besides hay. You really don't want kids to be too large at birth; They will still be healthy, but hopefully this will keep their size small. This will also ensure that she is in the best shape possible pre kidding... overweight does, even slightly so, are much more likely to have kidding problems. Also, the more kids she has in her, the smaller they will be.

[Middle River]

How about breeding her to a mini nubian ? i may have found one - fingers crossed !

[southerngurl]

My nubian is probably 110 lbs soaking wet, she's very small for a nubian. She was bred as a first freshener (wasn't bred until 1 1/2 yrs of age) to a large buck and had no problems. Had two nice little ones.

We also had a lamancha that was bred when we got her, she was only a youngster, and she was even smaller than my nubian and she did fine.

I don't have much goat breeding experience, mind you, but I think the babies tend to conform to the size of the doe, same reason you end up with smaller kids when you have triplets or quads. Don't overfeed while she's pregnant. Would rather put the weight on them after they are born than before.

[Middle River]

I'll measure her and post that info tomorrow and see what you all think about her size. Also, with the mini nubian buck, the gal needs to sell him, her two does, and a doeling - all reg. so it looks like in order to use him, i would have to get the package. Now all my goats except this small doe of mine are Alpines, so what would i do with a nice little herd of mini nubians ??? Opinons ???

[mygoat]

mini nubians are quite thrifty, so selling them wouldn't be hard... They are supposed to be dandy milkers, and pretty to boot.

You can ONLY get them if you post pictures! LOL

[Middle River]

LOL ! I've actually heard that they are hard to sell because they aren't popular yet ??? They sure are cute by the pics she sent me :+) The does and buck are 3rd generation and the doeling is 4th. She also said she got them from Green Gables here in WI - i've heard of that herd before. I'd get a good deal on some nice goats, and help her out as she has to sell, and i'd get a buck to breed my doe to - but the hubby won't be happy, and i'm sure will ask what i'm going to do with them - i suppose i could re-sell them, but i'm sure i'd be attached and i'd feel bad about buying them and then just reselling - opinons please :+)

[Middle River]

Ok i measured her last night - she is 29 in. i may have had it too snug so may be 29.25, so the chart says she weighs around 80lbs. She doesn't look it at all, but she is quite heavy if you are trying to pick her up. I also measured her pin bones from outside to outside is about 6 inches - does that mean anything, i forgot that i wanted to measure one of my other does to compare :+( Does that sound very small - how big are other doe's pin bones ? Thanks !

[southerngurl]

Wow, that is small.